2008 Rookie Draft Peak Grades

For Middleton: Would consider bumping his INS up to a B, he has shot around 70% from inside 3 ft of the basket; would also consider bumping him up to A outside due to the strength of his midrange as well as his elite 3pt shooting. Maybe give the REB a slight bump too as he has averaged 6 reb per game at his peak.

Might consider dropping Davis Bertans's HAN even lower to a D+, his ast-TOV numbers are not pretty no matter which way you look at it, per 36 or normal averages.

FYI I have not read any of the previous gripes
-Acie Law C+ HAN/DEF. Idk how he did in the NBA (or if he even played) but in Europe he was a great playmaker and one of the best pg defenders in the league while being part of a team that won the Euroleague back2back. Idk if it helps but the team he played for is my team's rival so no bias here
-Anthony Randolph C- HAN. Same thing that I said ab Acie applies to Randolph. He was a great playmaker for his position in Europe and seeing that bogut is already a C- I wouldn't be opposed to raising Randolph's playmaking too
-Brandon Rush B- OUT, C+ DEF: I think B OUT is a bit too high for Rush considering his volume. I also think he was a way better defender than a guy like Davis Bertans who also has C DEF
-Joe Ingles B+ OUT, B- DEF: Same reasoning as Rush
-Paul George B+ DEF: I think when Bogut has a B on DEF it's a bit too much to have PG 2 whole ratings above him
-Rodney Stuckey C+ OUT: Not the greatest 3pt shooter by any means but he was an above average midrange shooter. Millsap wasn't a good 3pt shooter either but he has a B- due to his midrange ability. Similar percentages to Millsap from 16-3p range with Millsap being the better 3pt shooter so him being a grade above makes sense. Not 2 though
-Wesley Johnson B- DEF, B- OUT: IMO he was quite better than a guy like Millsap defensively and closer to a guy like Thabo Sefolosha. Hence why I suggest the B- grade. His career average 3pt% is below 34% and he wasn't some sort of great midrange shooter either to deserve a B OUT
I would advocate for Sergio Rodriguez to get a B- HAN rating but considering Calathes didn't get it, I don't think he will either

Aug 27, 2023 11:38:55 GMT -5 tyo said:

Would raise Rush’s defense to a B - and lower his handle even more. Would probably slightly raise Maynor’s handle. Would raise Ingles handle to a B -. He could’ve been like a secondary handler depending on the team as he flashed nice vision. Would lower Wall’s handle to an A. A - feels very high for Khris Middleton..I would feel more comfortable with him being a B + outside. Larry Sanders should be a B defensively. Maybe could argue for Beas being an inside B but other than that solid job. PG should peak out as an A defender.

Stuckey feels really underwhelming no offense. Good job on Thabo and Brewer. Would switch Wesley Johnson’s defense and outside grading.

- Brandon Rush: I've given him a defensive boost, but he remains a very high C grade.
- Eric Maynor: I'm good with C+ HAN grade.
- Joe Ingles: I've boosted him right to the fringe of C+ HAN, but I'm going to leave him there.
- John Wall: I wouldn't read so much into the grade, FBB is very generous with the A+ HAN grade threshold. But Wall is fast and one of the best passers the league has seen as a prospect.
- Khris Middleton: I'm very comfortable with a guy who's 39% from three on high volume with elite mid-range game and an 88% free throw shooter earning an A- OUT grade.
- Larry Sanders: Right on the fringe as mentioned above, will consider giving him the slight bump.
- Michael Beasley: Already have talked about this one a bunch.
- Paul George: A would be way too high, maybe A- but I'll think about it.
- Rodney Stuckey: I've already given him a good boost in 2-3 different grades, I think he'll look a lot better when I post the change log.
- Wesley Johnson: Already lowered his OUT grade.

Thanks for the gripes as always.

Aug 27, 2023 14:07:33 GMT -5 redauerbachsghost said:

Would definitely bump Tiago Splitter's DEF up to a B-, his per 36 steals + blocks are pretty good and the steals especially are great for a big man.

Aug 27, 2023 14:15:21 GMT -5 redauerbachsghost said:

For Middleton: Would consider bumping his INS up to a B, he has shot around 70% from inside 3 ft of the basket; would also consider bumping him up to A outside due to the strength of his midrange as well as his elite 3pt shooting. Maybe give the REB a slight bump too as he has averaged 6 reb per game at his peak.

Aug 27, 2023 14:23:08 GMT -5 redauerbachsghost said:

Might consider dropping Davis Bertans's HAN even lower to a D+, his ast-TOV numbers are not pretty no matter which way you look at it, per 36 or normal averages.

- Tiago Splitter: Already done
- Khris Middleton: I feel good with his scoring ratings as is.
- Davis Bertans: I get the A/TO thing and I'll lower his Handling rating, but he's a good enough passer to stay C- grade.

Thanks for your gripes.

Aug 27, 2023 17:30:42 GMT -5 nickmolyvia said:

FYI I have not read any of the previous gripes
-Acie Law C+ HAN/DEF. Idk how he did in the NBA (or if he even played) but in Europe he was a great playmaker and one of the best pg defenders in the league while being part of a team that won the Euroleague back2back. Idk if it helps but the team he played for is my team's rival so no bias here
-Anthony Randolph C- HAN. Same thing that I said ab Acie applies to Randolph. He was a great playmaker for his position in Europe and seeing that bogut is already a C- I wouldn't be opposed to raising Randolph's playmaking too
-Brandon Rush B- OUT, C+ DEF: I think B OUT is a bit too high for Rush considering his volume. I also think he was a way better defender than a guy like Davis Bertans who also has C DEF
-Joe Ingles B+ OUT, B- DEF: Same reasoning as Rush
-Paul George B+ DEF: I think when Bogut has a B on DEF it's a bit too much to have PG 2 whole ratings above him
-Rodney Stuckey C+ OUT: Not the greatest 3pt shooter by any means but he was an above average midrange shooter. Millsap wasn't a good 3pt shooter either but he has a B- due to his midrange ability. Similar percentages to Millsap from 16-3p range with Millsap being the better 3pt shooter so him being a grade above makes sense. Not 2 though
-Wesley Johnson B- DEF, B- OUT: IMO he was quite better than a guy like Millsap defensively and closer to a guy like Thabo Sefolosha. Hence why I suggest the B- grade. His career average 3pt% is below 34% and he wasn't some sort of great midrange shooter either to deserve a B OUT
I would advocate for Sergio Rodriguez to get a B- HAN rating but considering Calathes didn't get it, I don't think he will either

- Acie Law: Unfortunately I have to base this on his NBA career and not EuroLeague. I know he had a great career overseas and I also loved him coming out of Texas A&M, but this has to be based on the NBA.
- Anthony Randolph: Again, can't base this off EuroLeague.
- Brandon Rush: I think his OUT grade is right. He was a high % shooter on roughly 4 attempts per 36 minutes. I will push him over the fringe to C+ DEF.
- Joe Ingles: I'm very confident that he should be A- OUT. He's close to B- DEF, but I think his defensive playmaking ratings (Stealing, Blocking) are what holds him back here.
- Paul George: I think I already did this.
- Rodney Stuckey: Already done.
- Wesley Johnson: Already lowered his OUT grade, his DEF grade is right on the fringe but I think he's been bumped over with the recent updates.
- Sergio Rodriguez: Already discussed.

Thanks for the gripes.

Aug 15, 2023 10:04:09 GMT -5 CC06 said:

Change Log:
Aaron Brooks INS: C -> C+
Brandon Rush HAN: D+ -> C-
Brandon Rush DEF: C -> C+
Damir Markota HAN: D -> D+
Davis Bertans HAN: C- -> D+
Garret Siler HAN: D -> D-
Garrett Temple DEF: C+ -> B-
Jeremy Tyler HAN: D- -> D
Joel Anthony DEF: B+ -> B
Marcus Cousin HAN: F+ -> D-
Mario West DEF: C -> C+
Mustafa Shakur DEF: C- -> C
Paul Millsap DEF: B- -> B
Robin Lopez DEF: C+ -> B-
Robin Lopez REB: C+ -> B-
Rodney Stuckey INS: C+ -> B-
Rodney Stuckey OUT: C -> C+
Rodney Stuckey DEF: C -> C+
Steve Novak DEF: D+ -> C-
Thabo Sefolosha OUT: B- -> C+
Thabo Sefolosha DEF: B -> B+
Tiago Splitter INS: C -> C+
Tiago Splitter DEF: C+ -> B-
Timofey Mozgov INS: C+ -> C
Ty Lawson DEF: C -> C+
Tyler Hansbrough INS: C -> C+
Vitor Faverani DEF: C- -> C
Wesley Johnson OUT: B -> B-
Wesley Johnson DEF: C+ -> B-

Change log updated.

Spencer Hawes: in his prime years a .750+ FT shooter who took 2.5-4 threes a game with fairly good clips should be a B outside scorer, or maybe fringe.

Ronnie Brewer: Showed he was capable of 12+ ppg when his usage went up in Utah. Could be a C+ C+ or B- fringe C+ scorer.

Raymond Felton: A career 33% 3pt% never a season above .400 with a career sub .800 FT% being a B rated outside shooter is a bit high I think. His handles rating feels inflated as well, probably due to high passing because his quickness shouldn’t be all that impressive.

Larry Sanders deserves a buff in his defensive peak in my opinion. Yes he was a block merchant similar to Whiteside in the past but he was less prone to gambling/getting burnt. He could play within a competent defensive system and he allowed a backcourt of Brandon Jennings and Monta Ellis to thrive despite constantly being driven towards. He was foul prone and had a short peak so I’m not arguing for him to be prime Dikembe, but he’s a worthy top 10 talent in this draft in my mind.

Also not as much of a complaint to letter grades, but I hope Paul George can be a bit of a playmaker here. I don’t think he should be some 8 assist 2.5 turnover wing, but for him to be a realistic version of his peak I think a potential to get up towards 5-6 assists per game would be great, even if it means he’s more turnover prone given how the game will balance things out at his position.

Should Paul Millsap have a higher Def rating?

There was a year when the Hawks boasted league lead in blocks with a Horford/Millsap starting front court en route to a 1 seed while in the same conference as a Lebron James team.

Think Khris Middleton's rebounding should cap at C+ instead of C, even at SF dude had between 5 and 6 boards a game during his prime years and over his entire career so far has averaged 5 boards a game

Aug 28, 2023 17:38:57 GMT -5 Icarus said:

Larry Sanders deserves a buff in his defensive peak in my opinion. Yes he was a block merchant similar to Whiteside in the past but he was less prone to gambling/getting burnt. He could play within a competent defensive system and he allowed a backcourt of Brandon Jennings and Monta Ellis to thrive despite constantly being driven towards. He was foul prone and had a short peak so I’m not arguing for him to be prime Dikembe, but he’s a worthy top 10 talent in this draft in my mind.

Aug 28, 2023 17:40:12 GMT -5 Icarus said:

Also not as much of a complaint to letter grades, but I hope Paul George can be a bit of a playmaker here. I don’t think he should be some 8 assist 2.5 turnover wing, but for him to be a realistic version of his peak I think a potential to get up towards 5-6 assists per game would be great, even if it means he’s more turnover prone given how the game will balance things out at his position.

- Larry Sanders: Sanders is a full letter grade higher than Whiteside was, and is on the fringe of a B grade to make him two grades higher.
- Paul George: Is this a gripe? I think his Handling rating is fine.

Aug 28, 2023 17:59:54 GMT -5 chrishalla0 said:

Should Paul Millsap have a higher Def rating?

There was a year when the Hawks boasted league lead in blocks with a Horford/Millsap starting front court en route to a 1 seed while in the same conference as a Lebron James team.

It's already been upped to a B.

Aug 28, 2023 18:01:18 GMT -5 bironronso said:

Think Khris Middleton's rebounding should cap at C+ instead of C, even at SF dude had between 5 and 6 boards a game during his prime years and over his entire career so far has averaged 5 boards a game

I don't think this level of rebounding warrants a C+ grade.

B- rebound for Leon Powe might be a little too high. You’ve given better rebounders less than a B- peak rebound. He was a 5 rebound guy at his best. C+ might be the best

Aug 28, 2023 20:10:07 GMT -5 shellystrick4l said:

B- rebound for Leon Powe might be a little too high. You’ve given better rebounders less than a B- peak rebound. He was a 5 rebound guy at his best. C+ might be the best

5 rebounds per game but 10 per 36 minutes, including being a great offensive rebounder. I'll stand by B- REB.

Aug 28, 2023 14:55:59 GMT -5 raidernation said:

Spencer Hawes: in his prime years a .750+ FT shooter who took 2.5-4 threes a game with fairly good clips should be a B outside scorer, or maybe fringe.

Ronnie Brewer: Showed he was capable of 12+ ppg when his usage went up in Utah. Could be a C+ C+ or B- fringe C+ scorer.

Raymond Felton: A career 33% 3pt% never a season above .400 with a career sub .800 FT% being a B rated outside shooter is a bit high I think. His handles rating feels inflated as well, probably due to high passing because his quickness shouldn’t be all that impressive.

- Spencer Hawes: If I was going to raise his OUT to B, I'd lower his INS as a result. I think I'd prefer to keep him as is, but I will give him a slight boost -- he's right by the fringe line for B OUT.
- Ronnie Brewer: He's near the fringe for both his scoring grades, but I also do have to factor in that he never scored double figures again after those two seasons.
- Raymond Felton: Good shout, fine lowering him to B- OUT.

Thanks for the gripes.