1999 Rookie Draft Peak Grades

Name Pos INS OUT HAN DEF REB
A.J. Bramlett C C- D+ F+ D+ C
Aleksandar Radojevic C C- D+ D C- C
Andre Miller PG C+ C A- B- C-
Andrei Kirilenko SF B- C+ C A- C
Baron Davis PG B B A- B- C-
Boniface N'Dong C C C- D- C- C
Cal Bowdler PF C C F+ C C
Calvin Booth C C C- D B- C
Chris Andersen C C+ C D B B-
Chris Herren PG C C+ C C D
Corey Maggette SF B+ C+ C C+ C
Derek Hood SF C D+ D- C C
Devean George SF C+ B C- C+ C
Dion Glover SG C+ B- C- C C-
Elton Brand PF B+ C- C- B B-
Evan Eschmeyer C C D+ D C C+
Francisco Elson C C+ C- D C+ C+
Geno Carlisle SG C C+ D+ C- D+
Gordan Giricek SG C B C- C C-
Harold Jamison PF C D D- C- C
Jamel Thomas SG C C C- C C-
James Posey SF C+ B- C- B+ C
Jason Miskiri PG C- D+ C- C- D-
Jason Terry SG C+ B+ B- C+ D+
Jeff Foster C C+ C- D C+ B+
Jermaine Jackson SG C C C- C D+
John Celestand SG C C C- C- D
Jonathan Bender SF C+ B D+ C C
Jorge Garbajosa PF C B C- C C
Jumaine Jones SF C+ B- D+ C+ C
Kenny Thomas PF B- C C- C+ C+
Lamar Odom PF B B- C+ B- C+
Lari Ketner C C D+ D- C- C
Laron Profit SG C C+ C- C+ C-
Lee Nailon SF C+ C- D+ C C
Leon Smith C C D+ D- C- C+
Manu Ginobili SG C+ B+ C+ B C
Maurice Carter SG C C+ C- C- D+
Michael Ruffin PF C D- D C+ C+
Milt Palacio PG C C C C D+
Obinna Ekezie C C C- D- C- C+
Pablo Prigioni PG C- B C C+ C-
Quincy Lewis SG C C+ D+ C C-
Raja Bell SG C+ A- C B D+
Richard Hamilton SG B- B- C+ B- C-
Rodney Buford SG C+ C+ D+ C C-
Ron Artest SF B+ B C A C
Ryan Robertson SG C- C D+ D+ D-
Scott Padgett PF C B D+ C C
Shawn Marion SF B B- C- A- B-
Steve Francis PG B+ B- B+ B- C
Tim James SF C C D C C
Tim Young C C- C- D- D+ C
Todd MacCulloch C C D+ D C C+
Trajan Langdon SG C B C- C D+
Vonteego Cummings PG C C+ C C D+
Wally Szczerbiak SF C+ B- C C C
Wang Zhizhi C C B D C C
Wayne Turner PG C D+ C C D+
William Avery PG C C+ C C D+

Here's the 1999 Rookie Draft class, in full. Just as before, these are the estimated peak ratings for these prospects, not how they will come into the league. The ratings are here to be griped; not providing input won't make the league move on any faster.

idk if BDiddy's inside rating is impacted by a high jump rating but I'd make sure he doesn't have more scoring volume than IRL

Artest looks too OP -- his defense should be same rank as AK47 and he's way too good of a scoring spec

Manu B- B+ scoring for a peak seems right

Raja Bell C inside

Artest looks a little too good. maybe B/B- scoring ratings?

Rip Hamilton is probably on point but B-B- seems a little low but hard to tell if that outside is effected by his lack of 3pt shot.. if his Jumpshot is still high then it’s cool with me

Prigioni also needs a B- handle at least

AKs build looks weak
Artest scoring too high

In order, I would select:

1. Artest (too high)
2. Francis
3. Baron Davis
4. Elton Brand
5. Jason Terry (too high)
6. Lamar Odom
7. Shawn Marion
8. Corey Magette (too high)
9. Raja Bell (too high)
10. Andre Kerilenko (too low)
11. Rip Hamilton (way too low)

Manu seems so underwhelming in general. I would at least bump his handle to a b-/b considering how good he was as a passer.

▪︎Rip Hamilton was a better offensive player than Ron Arrest

▪︎Wally is A+ in Hand(someness)

▪︎AK47 shot under 45% FG only once in his career. He finished more seasons over 49% FG than under 47%

▪︎i get the overall impression that stats are the most important factors in these ratings, but i cant help think some players get the shaft if they suffered a debilitating injury IRL. what I'm trying to say is that I 'memba Corey Magette being a a lot better prospect than actual player, but iirc he had a couple knee injuries? I'm curious about Caron Butler in an upcomong class - this guy was tops until a torn ACL iirc

▪︎anyway thanks for doing the draft class! 🙏

Is there a link to an explanation somewhere of how peak ratings are calculated vs actual entry ratings, and if they’re just a rough estimate or if somehow we’re actually getting players to progress to a known peak?

In other words is there no chance a guy grows past this or doesn’t reach this?

Change Log:
- Manu Ginobili HAN: C+ -> B-
- Raja Bell INS: C+ -> C
- Richard Hamilton INS: B- -> B
- Ron Artest INS: B+ -> B
- Ron Artest OUT: B -> B-
- Ron Artest DEF: A -> A-

Jul 22, 2022 13:34:42 GMT -5 Icarus said:

Is there a link to an explanation somewhere of how peak ratings are calculated vs actual entry ratings, and if they’re just a rough estimate or if somehow we’re actually getting players to progress to a known peak?

In other words is there no chance a guy grows past this or doesn’t reach this?

No direct explanation but I can give it a whirl:

There's two ways of making prospects: you can either create them to mirror the player as they were when they entered the league and let FBB Potential take it from there, or you can create them to try to reach what their prime was in real life and then backwards engineer their starting ratings. For me, I prefer the latter. For example, if you create Giannis Antetokounmpo to mirror rookie Giannis, he would almost never reach what he ended up becoming in real life in FBB's system, even with 100 potential. It does mean you have to overpower their base, but it's a worthwhile tradeoff in my opinion.

FBB, as we all know, is random and has a mind of its own, so there's no guarantee that a player reaches these peak ratings, and there's also no guarantee that they don't exceed them. Guys like Stephon Marbury and Stephen Jackson in this league are perfect examples of that. These peaks are simply median outcomes, and are meant to be compared to what a player was in their real life prime. Hope this helps!

Jul 22, 2022 13:39:18 GMT -5 CC06 said:

Jul 22, 2022 13:34:42 GMT -5 Icarus said:

Is there a link to an explanation somewhere of how peak ratings are calculated vs actual entry ratings, and if they’re just a rough estimate or if somehow we’re actually getting players to progress to a known peak?

In other words is there no chance a guy grows past this or doesn’t reach this?

No direct explanation but I can give it a whirl:

There's two ways of making prospects: you can either create them to mirror the player as they were when they entered the league and let FBB Potential take it from there, or you can create them to try to reach what their prime was in real life and then backwards engineer their starting ratings. For me, I prefer the latter. For example, if you create Giannis Antetokounmpo to mirror rookie Giannis, he would almost never reach what he ended up becoming in real life in FBB's system, even with 100 potential. It does mean you have to overpower their base, but it's a worthwhile tradeoff in my opinion.

FBB, as we all know, is random and has a mind of its own, so there's no guarantee that a player reaches these peak ratings, and there's also no guarantee that they don't exceed them. Guys like Stephon Marbury and Stephen Jackson in this league are perfect examples of that. These peaks are simply median outcomes, and are meant to be compared to what a player was in their real life prime. Hope this helps!

Oh cool. Didn’t realize that was an option so that’s really neat. Glad to hear there’s still plenty of randomness involved. Thanks!

I agree with the notion that Baron Davis’s inside scoring may be a little too high. He looks like he will be a FORCE once drafted

I gotta agree with not being sure how the ratings are in regard to figuring out what each player should be.

Jul 22, 2022 13:34:50 GMT -5 CC06 said:

Change Log:
- Manu Ginobili HAN: C+ -> B-
- Raja Bell INS: C+ -> C
- Richard Hamilton INS: B- -> B
- Ron Artest INS: B+ -> B
- Ron Artest OUT: B -> B-
- Ron Artest DEF: A -> A-

- Wally Szczerbiak OUT: B- -> B

Marion looks OP in a good way. Idk if his rebounding is heavy on OREB or if he’s high B- if not I think it could use a bump

If Odom has high quickness his defense looks a bit light, but I’m assuming he has good post defense for a SF which would play well at the 4 and wouldn’t inflate the rating

Artest low handles high passing with mediocre quickness? His handles rating looks higher than I would expect but if these things are as mentioned it could add up

Looking at it now I think Steve Francis’s offensive ability should be knocked down a notch. His inside is too high for sure, outside should be knocked down too.

Maggette inside feels very high for a rookie at B+. B feels like it would be sufficient. Might would decrease Devean George inside grade and raise his defensive one a bit. Jonathan Bender feels too low for the tantalizing prospect he was viewed at during that time. Would raise Lamar’s handle rating a bit. Raja’s outside grade feels very high…Rip seems a bit too good to me imo. Francis is perfect

Shawn Marion’s great… but he was arguably the best rebounding 3 in the league (when he played the 3) by a wide margin. I’d say rebounding could go up, even if it means jumping or strength drop slightly? Just make him sim in a way that gets a bit more stats, if it is low.

I feel like Baron’s defense was actually quite strong. Even if it’s just steals that get raised.

Posey was a sniper. Granted he didn’t have much mid range game but B- seems a bit low as a peak for his shooting outside.

Lamar’s top ability was passing (handling) in my opinion. Even if he’s turnover prone, I’d say raise his passing grade a bit.

I would almost argue Andre Miller deserves slightly higher inside and lower outside.

I do like the idea of giving Bender more potential if nothing else. Let him be boom or bust.

Jul 23, 2022 19:41:34 GMT -5 CC06 said:

Jul 22, 2022 13:34:50 GMT -5 CC06 said:

Change Log:
- Manu Ginobili HAN: C+ -> B-
- Raja Bell INS: C+ -> C
- Richard Hamilton INS: B- -> B
- Ron Artest INS: B+ -> B
- Ron Artest OUT: B -> B-
- Ron Artest DEF: A -> A-

- Wally Szczerbiak OUT: B- -> B

- Andre Miller INS: C+ -> B-
- Chris Anderson OUT: C -> C-
- Chris Andersen DEF: B -> B-
- Devean George OUT: B -> B-
- Devean George DEF: C+ -> B-
- James Posey OUT: B- -> B
- Raja Bell OUT: A- -> B+
- Steve Francis DEF: B- -> C+
- Wally Szczerbiak INS: C+ -> B-

I agree w odoms handle getting a bump whether its handles or passing itself.

Elton Brand did 3.5 stocks a couple years, B defense seems low. That's a pretty elite number.

Baron Davis was only like 30% career from 3 and 70% free throw. Outside shooting should probably be his weakness. Meanwhile he's B inside but is a ridiculous leaper. Feels like him peaking at B+ or A- is fine knowing he should be like 80 inside and 95 jumping at his peak, and knowing how the game works, that should be higher than a B at his outside scorings expense.

Ron Artest was genuinely the best wing defender of his time before he changed his name. Don't see the reason behind nerfing him from A defense down. Shit, if anyone is gonna be an A defender here, it should be him.

Jul 28, 2022 1:45:32 GMT -5 tyo said:

Maggette inside feels very high for a rookie at B+. B feels like it would be sufficient. Might would decrease Devean George inside grade and raise his defensive one a bit. Jonathan Bender feels too low for the tantalizing prospect he was viewed at during that time. Would raise Lamar’s handle rating a bit. Raja’s outside grade feels very high…Rip seems a bit too good to me imo. Francis is perfect

These are *peak* ratings not rookie ratings

Jul 28, 2022 20:24:02 GMT -5 jb said:

Elton Brand did 3.5 stocks a couple years, B defense seems low. That's a pretty elite number.

Baron Davis was only like 30% career from 3 and 70% free throw. Outside shooting should probably be his weakness. Meanwhile he's B inside but is a ridiculous leaper. Feels like him peaking at B+ or A- is fine knowing he should be like 80 inside and 95 jumping at his peak, and knowing how the game works, that should be higher than a B at his outside scorings expense.

Ron Artest was genuinely the best wing defender of his time before he changed his name. Don't see the reason behind nerfing him from A defense down. Shit, if anyone is gonna be an A defender here, it should be him.

I agree for the most part about Artest but his quickness rating and drive defense could be low quantifying a A- type grade there

Hopefully odom and artest have backup PG

Why would either?

Jul 23, 2022 19:41:34 GMT -5 CC06 said:

Jul 22, 2022 13:34:50 GMT -5 CC06 said:

Change Log:
- Manu Ginobili HAN: C+ -> B-
- Raja Bell INS: C+ -> C
- Richard Hamilton INS: B- -> B
- Ron Artest INS: B+ -> B
- Ron Artest OUT: B -> B-
- Ron Artest DEF: A -> A-

- Wally Szczerbiak OUT: B- -> B
- Andre Miller INS: C+ -> B-
- Chris Anderson OUT: C -> C-
- Chris Andersen DEF: B -> B-
- Devean George OUT: B -> B-
- Devean George DEF: C+ -> B-
- James Posey OUT: B- -> B
- Raja Bell OUT: A- -> B+
- Steve Francis DEF: B- -> C+
- Wally Szczerbiak INS: C+ -> B-

- Baron Davis OUT: B -> B-
- Jonathan Bender OUT: B -> B-
- Jumaine Jones OUT: B- -> C+

RE: Artest, nobody has had an A DEF peak yet. I've put 3-4 guys right on the fringe, intentionally. Artest joins that category.

Jul 29, 2022 7:19:07 GMT -5 bosoxlover12 said:

Why would either?

Artest played pg his rookie year and lamar is an OG point forward

My apologies for doing this during the draft and not prior (although wouldn't have known) but Jason Terry's position eligibility seems off to me.

You list him at 6'2" 180 lb, yet give him SF starting eligibility? I understand you're trying to avoid the cheesing of him at PG in a very fast outside offense, but he has a far better case for being a starting PG than he does as a starting SF imo.

He either should be SG/PG or just SG, with PG/SG backup eligibility.

Jul 30, 2022 1:31:50 GMT -5 bosoxlover12 said:

My apologies for doing this during the draft and not prior (although wouldn't have known) but Jason Terry's position eligibility seems off to me.

You list him at 6'2" 180 lb, yet give him SF starting eligibility? I understand you're trying to avoid the cheesing of him at PG in a very fast outside offense, but he has a far better case for being a starting PG than he does as a starting SF imo.

He either should be SG/PG or just SG, with PG/SG backup eligibility.

All natural SG’s have SF eligibility by default