2009 Rookie Draft Peak Grades

Name Pos INS OUT HAN DEF REB
A.J. Price PG C C+ C C D+
Al-Farouq Aminu SF C+ B C- B C+
Alonzo Gee SF C C+ D+ C+ C-
Andre Ingram SG C- C+ C- D+ D
Anthony Morrow SG C B+ C- C D+
Avery Bradley SG C+ B+ C B- C-
Byron Mullens C C C+ D C C
C.J. Williams SG C C+ C- C D+
Cartier Martin SF C B D C C-
Cedric Jackson PG C C C C C-
Chase Budinger SF C+ B C- C C
Chris Douglas-Roberts SF C C+ C- C D+
Coby Karl SG C- C C- C D+
D.J. Strawberry SG C C C- C C-
Daequan Cook SG C B C- C C-
DaJuan Summers SF C C+ D C D+
Damjan Rudez SF C B- D C- D+
Darren Collison PG C B+ B C+ C-
DeAndre Jordan C B D D B- A
DeJuan Blair PF C D+ D+ C B
DeMar DeRozan SF A- C+ B- C+ C
Dennis Horner PF C- C D- D C-
Derrick Caracter C C- D+ D- C C
Ed Davis PF C+ D+ D C+ B
Eric Bledsoe PG B B- B+ A- C
Gerald Henderson SG C+ C+ C C C-
Glen Davis PF C+ C- D+ C+ C+
Goran Dragic PG C+ B B C+ C-
Greg Monroe C B- C- C- C B
Gustavo Ayon C C D+ D C C+
James Harden SG A- B+ A C+ C
James Johnson PF C+ C+ C B C
Jan Vesely PF C+ D D- C C
Jason Thompson PF C+ C- D C C+
Jeff Adrien PF C D+ D C C+
Jeremy Evans PF C+ C- D C+ C+
Jeremy Lamb SG C+ B C C+ C
Jeremy Lin PG C+ B B- B- C-
Jeremy Pargo PG C C+ C C D+
Jermaine Taylor SG C C+ C- C- C-
Jerome Dyson PG C C C C D+
Jodie Meeks SG C B+ C- C D+
Joey Dorsey PF C D- D C B
Jon Brockman PF C D+ D- D+ B-
Jonathan Gibson PG C B C C D+
Jonny Flynn PG C B- C+ C D
Jordan Hill C C+ C- D C B
Jrue Holiday PG C+ B B+ A- C
Justin Williams C C+ D- F+ C B+
Kosta Koufos C C D+ D- B- B
Kyle O'Quinn C C C D+ B- B-
Lazar Hayward SF C C+ D+ C C-
Malcolm Lee SG C C+ C- C C-
Marcus Thornton SG C B C- C C-
Miroslav Raduljica C C- C- D- C- C
Morris Almond SG C C+ D+ C C-
Nathan Jawai C C- C- D- C- C
Nemanja Bjelica PF C B C- C C
Nikola Pekovic C C+ C- D C B-
Patrick Beverley PG C+ B C+ A- C
Phil Pressey PG C C C C D+
Quincy Miller PF C C+ D+ C C
Ramon Sessions PG C+ C+ C+ C C-
Ricky Rubio PG C B- A- B- C-
Robert Hite SG C C C- C D+
Rudy Gay SF B B C B- C
Ryan Broekhoff SF C B D+ C C-
Sam Young SF C C+ D+ C+ C
Sasha Kaun C C D D C C
Serge Ibaka PF B- B- D B C+
Taj Gibson PF C+ C D+ B- C+
Toney Douglas PG C B C C+ C-
Trey Gilder SF C C D- D+ D+
Trey Johnson SG C C C- D+ C-
Victor Claver SF C C D+ C C

Here's the 2009 Rookie Draft class, in full. Just as before, these are the estimated peak ratings for these prospects, not how they will come into the league. The ratings are here to be griped; not providing input won't make the league move on any faster.

Change Log:
Al-Farouq Aminu OUT: B to B-
Alonzo Gee DEF: C+ to B-
Anthony Morrow OUT: B+ to A-
Avery Bradley OUT: B+ to B
Avery Bradley DEF: B- to B
DeAndre Jordan DEF: B- to B
DeMar DeRozan HAN: B- to B
Dennis Horner DEF: D to D+
Derrick Caracter INS: C- to C
Eric Blesdoe HAN: B+ to B
Eric Bledsoe DEF: A- to B+
Gerald Henderson INS: C+ to B-
Goran Dragic INS: C+ to B-
Goran Dragic OUT: B to B+
Greg Monroe INS: B- to B
James Johnson DEF: B to B-
Jrue Holiday INS: C+ to B-
Justin Williams REB: B+ to B-
Kosta Koufos INS: C to C+
Marcus Thornton INS: C to C+
Nikola Pekovic INS: C+ to B-
Patrick Beverley INS: C+ to C
Quincy Miller DEF: C to C+
Ramon Sessions HAN: C+ to B-
Serge Ibaka HAN: D to D+
Serge Ibaka DEF: B to B+
Taj Gibson INS: C+ to B-
Taj Gibson DEF: B- to B
Trey Gilder DEF: D+ to C-

Bledsoe to B+ DEF: was never all league level when it came to defense. Good defender but not on the level of Jrue who is also an A-
Ibaka to A- DEF: We are talking about a former DPOY here. Even without his DPOY Ibaka was an elite defender. Definetly better than Bledsoe who has an A- in defense. Best shot blocker in the league at his peak without chasing blocks like Whiteside for example. Great pnr defender. B is very low

Oct 2, 2023 8:45:27 GMT -5 nickmolyvia said:

Ibaka to A- DEF

Yes.

Ramon Sessions B- inside B- handling... I believe he got to the free throw line a lot
Pat Bev C inside
Pekovic B inside
Gustavo Ayon B/B- inside
Blair B-/C+ inside
Dragic B- inside... Dragic having a lower peak than Bledsoe seems wrong to me
Jason Thompson B- inside
Monroe and Big Baby Davis deserve an inside bump too imo
Avery Bradley at least B+ defense
Anthony Morrow A-/A outside

eric bledsoes ratings around the board all need to go way down, B/B-/B+/A- DEF for a player who never won a DPOY, never made an all star game, has only 2 20+ ppg seasons in his 13 year journeyman career, he never had above a 6 apg season, and no real accolades or playoff success to boast. Bledsoe should definitely have peaks of C+/B-/B/B across the board, as these are more fitting to what he achieved in his career.

Would argue for Avery Bradley's REB to be a bit higher (C), as he did average 6 RPG at his peak there and also was pretty consistently around 3-4 when he was actually getting starter's minutes (his per 36 numbers reflect this too).

Darren Collison should have A- OUT, he was a really great 3pt shooter at his peak (47%!!!) and his career average is 40%, which is pretty widely considered "elite shooter" territory.

DeAndre Jordan should have D+ HAN, feels like D is a bit low; he wasn't the WORST post passer and did average a couple assists in his prime. Should also be upped to at least B DEF, he averaged at LEAST a block in every year he was a starter and averaged 2.5 at his peak. Also made 2 all-defensive teams, which is the same number as noted defensive god Eric Bledsoe!

Demar's absolutely ELITE midrange shooting and very good FT% should bump him up to a B- OUT, especially as he has shot pretty much league average from 3 in the past 2 seasons - he's certainly shown himself to be capable of being an average 3pt shooter, which, combined with the other stuff, should bump him to B- OUT.

Would argue Bledsoe down to B- INS and B HAN... he never did average more than 6.3 APG. Might argue his REB grade up to a C+ though, hovering around 5 RPG for a few seasons is decent.

Oct 2, 2023 8:45:27 GMT -5 nickmolyvia said:

Bledsoe to B+ DEF: was never all league level when it came to defense. Good defender but not on the level of Jrue who is also an A-
Ibaka to A- DEF: We are talking about a former DPOY here. Even without his DPOY Ibaka was an elite defender. Definetly better than Bledsoe who has an A- in defense. Best shot blocker in the league at his peak without chasing blocks like Whiteside for example. Great pnr defender. B is very low

- Eric Bledsoe: Not all A- grades are created the same... Jrue is definitely a better defender as is while Bledsoe is right on the fringe, but I'm fine dropping him slightly to B- DEF, although you are wrong and he did make All-Defense two times.
- Serge Ibaka: Are the NBA awards given to different people in Europe? Ibaka never won Defensive Player of the Year, nor should he have. While he was a great shot blocker, he was never elite as a one-on-one defender, and this was known even at the time. I'm fine upping to B+ but I do not agree with going any further. I promise his Blocking rating is elite.

Thanks for the gripes.

Oct 2, 2023 9:12:09 GMT -5 jord said:

Oct 2, 2023 8:45:27 GMT -5 nickmolyvia said:

Ibaka to A- DEF

Yes.

Ramon Sessions B- inside B- handling... I believe he got to the free throw line a lot
Pat Bev C inside
Pekovic B inside
Gustavo Ayon B/B- inside
Blair B-/C+ inside
Dragic B- inside... Dragic having a lower peak than Bledsoe seems wrong to me
Jason Thompson B- inside
Monroe and Big Baby Davis deserve an inside bump too imo
Avery Bradley at least B+ defense
Anthony Morrow A-/A outside

- Ramon Sessions: I'm fine upping his HAN grade to B- (right on the fringe as is) but I don't see any argument for raising his INS grade at all.
- Patrick Beverley: Sure.
- Nikola Pekovic: I can see an argument for B- but not B.
- Gustavo Ayon: Not seeing this one at all.
- DeJuan Blair: He's right on the fringe but he was never really a great scorer and his Jumping rating is very low.
- Goran Dragic: He's on the fringe but I believe C+ INS is fair considering his Jumping rating is low.
- Jason Thompson: Don't agree with this
- Greg Monroe: Agree with bumping to B INS.
- Glen Davis: Don't agree, I think C+ is fine.
- Avery Bradley: I agree with B but not any higher. His defensive reputation did not quite match what he actually was, and he also does not have the Stealing/Blocking ratings to pump his grade up.
- Anthony Morrow: Sure.

Thanks for the gripes.

Oct 2, 2023 9:41:09 GMT -5 licensedbullshark said:

eric bledsoes ratings around the board all need to go way down, B/B-/B+/A- DEF for a player who never won a DPOY, never made an all star game, has only 2 20+ ppg seasons in his 13 year journeyman career, he never had above a 6 apg season, and no real accolades or playoff success to boast. Bledsoe should definitely have peaks of C+/B-/B/B across the board, as these are more fitting to what he achieved in his career.

I definitely would not call a guy of his caliber a "journeyman", but to each their own. I've already lowered his DEF grade (mentioned above) and I'm fine with his Handling going from B+ to B, but I'm fine with his INS grade being where it is due to a high Jumping and Strength (relative to other PG's) rating (would be B- otherwise).

Anthony Morrow to C+ DEF: I think he was an above-average defender. Not a great one but definitely not average
Avery Bradley to a B OUT B DEF: I think that B+ OUT is overexaggerated. He shot 36% for his career on just 3 attempts a game. That constitutes for 1 three per game for his career. The volume is just not there. Defensively he was one of the best defensive guards in the league. I would argue he was a better defender than Bledsoe who has an A- so a B at least is mandatory
Darren Collison to B+ HAN: Great playmaker at his peak (over a 4 ast/tov ratio during his best season), quick enough to boost his ball handling too. I think that B+ is a good rating for him
Demar Derozan to C OUT: I think C is inarguable. Yes his midrange is elite but he is too bad of a 3pt shooter to be anything above average. 29% for his career is horrendous
Eric Bledsoe to C+ OUT B HAN: Adding onto the previous Bledsoe gripe, I think that B- is very generous for someone who has a career average of 34% from 3 and was not a great midrange shooter either in order to compensate for it. Matter of fact he has worse splits than Gerald Henderson who has a C+ OUT rating. Bledsoe 10-16: 41%, 16-32: 36%, 3p: 34%. Henderson 10-16: 41%, 16-32: 41%, 3p: 33%. Moving onto HAN I also think that B+ is overexaggerated. His best-ever ast/tov ratio was barely above 2 and that only happened in 3 occasions one of which came in a season where he played just 41 games. Due to his quickness I would not lower it any lower but I think B+ is insane for someone who couldn't take care of the ball like a true floor general. Matter of fact Dragic was a way better playmaker yet he is at a B
Goran Dragic to B+ HAN: Averaged 7 assists per game during the season in which he was asked to playmaker the most while keeping a great ast/tov ratio (2.6 which is great when considering the pass volume). In total he had 11 seasons with an ast/tov ratio which was equal to or better than 2 in a 15 year career. He was also pretty quick. I think B+ is just right for him
Ramon Sessions to B- HAN: I think C+ is really harsh for a guy who at his peak averaged 6 assists a game at just 28 mpg with an ast/tov ratio of 3. Only surpassed 2 tovpg twice in his 11 year career. Was also kinda quick
Taj Gibson to B- INS and B- REB: His volume is kinda lacking so that's why I will not advocate for his INS to be higher but Taj was insanely efficient at the rim. With 67% for his career within 3 feet of the basket we are talking about insane efficiency. Deandre who has a B INS has a % of 73 within 3 feet of the basket while being assisted by a top 10 playmaker ever for the entirety of his peak and being 2 inches taller which obviously helps. I am not saying that he is as good of a finisher as Deandre but considering all of the above I think that he doesn't deserve to be 2 whole ratings below him when he was one of the best lob threats in the league too for a solid 4 year span. Moving onto rebounding I also think it's harsh to have him just above league average. From age 24 (rookie season) til age 33 (last full season in which he played at least 20 mpg) he averaged 6.4 rpg in just 26 mpg. 6.4 rpg in such a small amount of time at just 6'9 indicates great rebounding ability

Oct 2, 2023 14:30:26 GMT -5 CC06 said:

Oct 2, 2023 8:45:27 GMT -5 nickmolyvia said:

Bledsoe to B+ DEF: was never all league level when it came to defense. Good defender but not on the level of Jrue who is also an A-
Ibaka to A- DEF: We are talking about a former DPOY here. Even without his DPOY Ibaka was an elite defender. Definetly better than Bledsoe who has an A- in defense. Best shot blocker in the league at his peak without chasing blocks like Whiteside for example. Great pnr defender. B is very low

- Eric Bledsoe: Not all A- grades are created the same... Jrue is definitely a better defender as is while Bledsoe is right on the fringe, but I'm fine dropping him slightly to B- DEF, although you are wrong and he did make All-Defense two times.
- Serge Ibaka: Are the NBA awards given to different people in Europe? Ibaka never won Defensive Player of the Year, nor should he have. While he was a great shot blocker, he was never elite as a one-on-one defender, and this was known even at the time. I'm fine upping to B+ but I do not agree with going any further. I promise his Blocking rating is elite.

Thanks for the gripes.

I don't know why i said Ibaka has a dpoy. I got confused lol. We discussed the all league thing with Bledsoe in discord but i will rewrite it here just so that it's visible here too. Defensive all league selections, especially at the guard position is really not that impressive because many times the competition just isn't there. There have been plenty of guards that have been gifted with all defense selections due to non existant competition, and although i think that Bledsoe was a great POA defender, i think he was one of them. His size just didn't allow him to be as good defensively as he could. He was a similar defender to Schroder in my opinion who i don't expect to have a A- either

Avery Bradley B Outside/Defense
Was known as a primary defender even at his size I thinks warrants a B defense at least, comparably was a better defender then Rubio who also has a B-. In return he was never a great 3pt shooter, average at best B* seems too high


Eric Bledsoe B Handle
Build seems a little OP but I think the handle is what would put him over, was never a playmaking type of PG


Marcus Thornton B+ Outside C Handle
Was a bucket .. let him cook .. Id argue he was a better scorer then Avery Bradley who has C+B+ scoring ratings rn

Taj Gibson C+ Outside B Defense
Always had a goto 10-16 foot shot that has been automatic, and very underrated defender

Feel like a B- ins d DeAndre undersells his ability to protect the paint. I have no numbers but he was a really good defender in his prime

Also agree with Demar's outside being nerfed to C. Barely shoots 3s and always shot it poorly when he did.

Peak Serge and Bledsoe should be A - defenders. I’d raise Rubio to a B defensively as well. Good job with Pat Bev. I might would lower Jrue’s handle honestly. I would raise Pek’s and Taj’s inside rating to a B -. Rudy feels underwhelming. I feel a B+ inside is at least fitting for him. Would lower Harden’s defense to a C. Good job with Jeremy Lin. I would raise Demar’s playmaking a bit to a B. I feel like a B + for outside on Collison is kind of high. Dragic’s ratings feels fitting

Avery Bradley - PEAKING at a B- defensively feels low. I'd agree with the B upgrade which is solid.

Darren Collison - Hoping he has a solid steal rating cause he was always consistent on the quick hands. I felt like a B- would be fitting for him peak defense wise.

Dejuan Blair - B+ Rebounding at a peak too high? the per 36 numbers for him on rebounding look really good, always felt with more PT his numbers would've matched his skill.

Demar Derozan - A Inside too high? I feel like his outside can't get much higher due to the 3pt shooting never being there but the Mid and free throws were always solid.

Eric Bledsoe - I think you're original defense rating for him was fine, I disagree with the gripes so far. I'd say he's was slightly under Jrue as a defender.

Jason Thompson - I think he's a better rebounder than C+ at his peak, B- feels more fitting.

Jodie Meeks - C+ inside, I'd say cause he was definitely a willing shooter at all times.

Jeremy Lin - I'd say B Handling at his peak

Marcus Thornton - C+ inside for being a bucket

Pat Bev - A defense at his peak

Quincy Miller - C+ Defense, his steal numbers (and lowkey scoring as well) are solid when looking at the higher possession stats.

Ricky Rubio - A Handling, always had a solid A/TO rate and I'd argue if his teammates were better the assists numbers would've been higher lol

Taj Gibson - Just hope he has a solid block rating

Rubio’s handling and defense should be a bit higher. Textbook definition of a PG.

Deandre Jordan being a B- defensively is very low. He was an all nba defensive first team guy multiple time.

Gerald Henderson’s defensive rating could be a bit higher.

Andre Ingram looks like a liability out there with his sub C- defense and rebounding ability. We all witnessed he is not a liability. He was never out there getting absolutely cooked. He stood on his bidness and made an NBA roster. He can hold his own out there. Those ratings being under C is a mockery of real professional talent.

If we're talking PEAKS I disagree with some of the gripes about Demar's OUT grade. He's had a few seasons where he's peaked at or above league average from 3 on about 2 attempts per game, and it feels like they're forgetting that midrange is included in OUT, and he is the modern day god of the midrange.

Goran Dragic: Feels like B OUT is a bit low; he's shot 40% from 3 on good volume multiple seasons, so maybe up it to B+. C+ DEF also feels a bit low for someone who, in his youth, put up pretty good steals numbers per 36.

Rudy Gay: I agree with TYO, Rudy should be upped to B+ INS. Also think his REB grade needs to be upped to C+ or even B-, seeing as his per 36 rebounding numbers are quite good, especially in his last few years of getting starter-type minutes.

Ramon Sessions: Would up Ramon to a C+ DEF, his per 36 steals numbers are pretty good (1.5 per game at his peak)

Aminu - Looking at his stocks I'm surprised he's a B, felt like he was a solid defender but was expecting b-
Budinger - I think his out should be lowered, i remembered him being a good shooter but his stats were lower than expected. also am thinking b- inside since he had hops and was in a dunk contest and did ok
Douglas Roberts - Feel like C+ inside C outside fits his shot profile better
Collison - Feels like he's a low b- defender rather than a high c+, at least from memory. Over a steal per game. Would argue he has same handles rating as Bledsoe (B+)
Lin - C inside maybe - did not get into the rim a lot imo

Oct 2, 2023 15:12:25 GMT -5 nickmolyvia said:

Anthony Morrow to C+ DEF: I think he was an above-average defender. Not a great one but definitely not average

Avery Bradley to a B OUT B DEF: I think that B+ OUT is overexaggerated. He shot 36% for his career on just 3 attempts a game. That constitutes for 1 three per game for his career. The volume is just not there. Defensively he was one of the best defensive guards in the league. I would argue he was a better defender than Bledsoe who has an A- so a B at least is mandatory

Darren Collison to B+ HAN: Great playmaker at his peak (over a 4 ast/tov ratio during his best season), quick enough to boost his ball handling too. I think that B+ is a good rating for him

Demar Derozan to C OUT: I think C is inarguable. Yes his midrange is elite but he is too bad of a 3pt shooter to be anything above average. 29% for his career is horrendous

Eric Bledsoe to C+ OUT B HAN: Adding onto the previous Bledsoe gripe, I think that B- is very generous for someone who has a career average of 34% from 3 and was not a great midrange shooter either in order to compensate for it. Matter of fact he has worse splits than Gerald Henderson who has a C+ OUT rating. Bledsoe 10-16: 41%, 16-32: 36%, 3p: 34%. Henderson 10-16: 41%, 16-32: 41%, 3p: 33%. Moving onto HAN I also think that B+ is overexaggerated. His best-ever ast/tov ratio was barely above 2 and that only happened in 3 occasions one of which came in a season where he played just 41 games. Due to his quickness I would not lower it any lower but I think B+ is insane for someone who couldn't take care of the ball like a true floor general. Matter of fact Dragic was a way better playmaker yet he is at a B

Goran Dragic to B+ HAN: Averaged 7 assists per game during the season in which he was asked to playmaker the most while keeping a great ast/tov ratio (2.6 which is great when considering the pass volume). In total he had 11 seasons with an ast/tov ratio which was equal to or better than 2 in a 15 year career. He was also pretty quick. I think B+ is just right for him

Ramon Sessions to B- HAN: I think C+ is really harsh for a guy who at his peak averaged 6 assists a game at just 28 mpg with an ast/tov ratio of 3. Only surpassed 2 tovpg twice in his 11 year career. Was also kinda quick

Taj Gibson to B- INS and B- REB: His volume is kinda lacking so that's why I will not advocate for his INS to be higher but Taj was insanely efficient at the rim. With 67% for his career within 3 feet of the basket we are talking about insane efficiency. Deandre who has a B INS has a % of 73 within 3 feet of the basket while being assisted by a top 10 playmaker ever for the entirety of his peak and being 2 inches taller which obviously helps. I am not saying that he is as good of a finisher as Deandre but considering all of the above I think that he doesn't deserve to be 2 whole ratings below him when he was one of the best lob threats in the league too for a solid 4 year span. Moving onto rebounding I also think it's harsh to have him just above league average. From age 24 (rookie season) til age 33 (last full season in which he played at least 20 mpg) he averaged 6.4 rpg in just 26 mpg. 6.4 rpg in such a small amount of time at just 6'9 indicates great rebounding ability

- Anthony Morrow: I don't agree with this one.
- Avery Bradley: Already upped his DEF grade above. As for his OUT grade, fine with moving it to a high B but he was a good shooter from both three and mid-range.
- Darren Collison: He's close to the fringe here but I think the grade is right.
- DeMar DeRozan: Obviously three-point shooting has never been his strength, but his mid-range game for this era is elite and buoys him at a C+ grade.
- Eric Bledsoe: Already lowered his HAN grade above. As for his OUT grade, he was roughly a 34% three-point shooter with ~4 attempts per game for the majority of his career. I think B- is fine.
- Goran Dragic: He's right on the fringe here, I think B is fine.
- Ramon Sessions: Already done above.
- Taj Gibson: Both of these grades were right on the fringe. I'm fine upping his INS to B- but I'm going to leave the REB grade as is, I think it's accurate.

Thanks for the gripes.

Oct 2, 2023 19:07:57 GMT -5 dez said:

Avery Bradley B Outside/Defense
Was known as a primary defender even at his size I thinks warrants a B defense at least, comparably was a better defender then Rubio who also has a B-. In return he was never a great 3pt shooter, average at best B* seems too high


Eric Bledsoe B Handle
Build seems a little OP but I think the handle is what would put him over, was never a playmaking type of PG


Marcus Thornton B+ Outside C Handle
Was a bucket .. let him cook .. Id argue he was a better scorer then Avery Bradley who has C+B+ scoring ratings rn

Taj Gibson C+ Outside B Defense
Always had a goto 10-16 foot shot that has been automatic, and very underrated defender

- Avery Bradley: Already done.
- Eric Bledsoe: Already done.
- Marcus Thornton: Already upped his INS grade for this reason... I will give him a boost in INS but I think B is the correct grade. As for his HAN grade, the Passing just isn't there.
- Taj Gibson: Doesn't shoot enough threes to get an OUT boost. As for DEF, he's right on the fringe.

Thanks for the gripes.

Oct 7, 2023 11:07:26 GMT -5 snipe said:

Feel like a B- ins d DeAndre undersells his ability to protect the paint. I have no numbers but he was a really good defender in his prime

Also agree with Demar's outside being nerfed to C. Barely shoots 3s and always shot it poorly when he did.

- DeAndre Jordan: Him having B DEF and A REB just feels very OP but I'll consider it.
- DeMar DeRozan: Already addressed above.

Thanks.

Oct 8, 2023 9:27:24 GMT -5 tyo said:

Peak Serge and Bledsoe should be A - defenders. I’d raise Rubio to a B defensively as well. Good job with Pat Bev. I might would lower Jrue’s handle honestly. I would raise Pek’s and Taj’s inside rating to a B -. Rudy feels underwhelming. I feel a B+ inside is at least fitting for him. Would lower Harden’s defense to a C. Good job with Jeremy Lin. I would raise Demar’s playmaking a bit to a B. I feel like a B + for outside on Collison is kind of high. Dragic’s ratings feels fitting

- Serge Ibaka / Eric Bledsoe: Already addressed both of these grades above. I think B+ is fine for both given that A- is the highest defensive grade the league has seen.
- Ricky Rubio: He's right on the fringe with a very high Stealing rating, I'm going to leave him where he is.
- Jrue Holiday: I think B+ is fine, he's had many seasons averaging over 7 assists including topping out at 8 per game.
- Nikola Pekovic / Taj Gibson: Already did both.
- Rudy Gay: I don't see how B INS / B OUT grades are underwhelming.
- James Harden: His defensive fundamentals are bad but he has good Stealing and Blocking ratings that buoy him at a C+ grade.
- DeMar DeRozan: I'm good with this one.
- Darren Collison: He was a 39% three-point shooter and a great mid-range shooter. I think B+ is fine.

Thanks for the gripes as always.

Oct 8, 2023 9:43:18 GMT -5 stunna said:

Avery Bradley - PEAKING at a B- defensively feels low. I'd agree with the B upgrade which is solid.

Darren Collison - Hoping he has a solid steal rating cause he was always consistent on the quick hands. I felt like a B- would be fitting for him peak defense wise.

Dejuan Blair - B+ Rebounding at a peak too high? the per 36 numbers for him on rebounding look really good, always felt with more PT his numbers would've matched his skill.

Demar Derozan - A Inside too high? I feel like his outside can't get much higher due to the 3pt shooting never being there but the Mid and free throws were always solid.

Eric Bledsoe - I think you're original defense rating for him was fine, I disagree with the gripes so far. I'd say he's was slightly under Jrue as a defender.

Jason Thompson - I think he's a better rebounder than C+ at his peak, B- feels more fitting.

Jodie Meeks - C+ inside, I'd say cause he was definitely a willing shooter at all times.

Jeremy Lin - I'd say B Handling at his peak

Marcus Thornton - C+ inside for being a bucket

Pat Bev - A defense at his peak

Quincy Miller - C+ Defense, his steal numbers (and lowkey scoring as well) are solid when looking at the higher possession stats.

Ricky Rubio - A Handling, always had a solid A/TO rate and I'd argue if his teammates were better the assists numbers would've been higher lol

Taj Gibson - Just hope he has a solid block rating

- Avery Bradley: Already upped it above.
- Darren Collison: I think C+ is fair here, he did have quick hands like you mentioned but I wouldn't call him an above average defender (partially due to lack of size).
- DeJuan Blair: His Offensive Rebounding grade is very high, he wasn't as good as a defensive rebounder comparatively.
- DeMar DeRozan: Between his scoring ability and athleticism, I think A- INS is right.
- Eric Bledsoe: He's right on the fringe to go back to A- DEF, I think it's fine.
- Jason Thompson: I've given him a boost but he's still right on the C+ fringe.
- Jodie Meeks: I think his scoring build is accurate.
- Jeremy Lin: He's right by the fringe.
- Marcus Thornton: Already upped it above.
- Pat Beverley: As I mentioned above, A- is about as high as we've seen anybody go. I think A- is right for Pat.
- Quincy Miller: I've given him a defensive boost and he's right on the fringe to go up to a C+ grade.
- Ricky Rubio: I think A- is fair.
- Taj Gibson: Addressed his defense above, his Blocking rating is solid as you mentioned.

Thanks for the gripes.

Oct 8, 2023 10:10:15 GMT -5 shellystrick4l said:

Rubio’s handling and defense should be a bit higher. Textbook definition of a PG.

Deandre Jordan being a B- defensively is very low. He was an all nba defensive first team guy multiple time.

Gerald Henderson’s defensive rating could be a bit higher.

Andre Ingram looks like a liability out there with his sub C- defense and rebounding ability. We all witnessed he is not a liability. He was never out there getting absolutely cooked. He stood on his bidness and made an NBA roster. He can hold his own out there. Those ratings being under C is a mockery of real professional talent.

- Ricky Rubio: Already addressed both of these above.
- DeAndre Jordan: I'm fine upping this to a low B grade.
- Gerald Henderson: I've given him a defensive boost but he remains at a C.
- Andre Ingram: Andre Ingram couldn't even make an NBA team for ten years. Just because he had a feel good story in the garbage time of the season for the Lakers doesn't mean he's all the sudden going to be a serviceable player for the entirety of his career in TSFBL. He was literally a LOFA.

Thanks for the gripes.

Oct 8, 2023 14:22:26 GMT -5 redauerbachsghost said:

If we're talking PEAKS I disagree with some of the gripes about Demar's OUT grade. He's had a few seasons where he's peaked at or above league average from 3 on about 2 attempts per game, and it feels like they're forgetting that midrange is included in OUT, and he is the modern day god of the midrange.

Oct 8, 2023 14:39:04 GMT -5 redauerbachsghost said:

Goran Dragic: Feels like B OUT is a bit low; he's shot 40% from 3 on good volume multiple seasons, so maybe up it to B+. C+ DEF also feels a bit low for someone who, in his youth, put up pretty good steals numbers per 36.

Rudy Gay: I agree with TYO, Rudy should be upped to B+ INS. Also think his REB grade needs to be upped to C+ or even B-, seeing as his per 36 rebounding numbers are quite good, especially in his last few years of getting starter-type minutes.

Ramon Sessions: Would up Ramon to a C+ DEF, his per 36 steals numbers are pretty good (1.5 per game at his peak)

- DeMar DeRozan: Already addressed and have stated I'm leaving it alone.
- Goran Dragic: I'm fine with upping him to a low B+ OUT but I do not agree with upping his DEF grade.
- Rudy Gay: Again, I don't see how B INS / B OUT is underwhelming in any way. This is a guy who never even made the All-Star game.
- Ramon Sessions: I think C is accurate. For his Stealing directly, he never averaged more than 1.4 per 36 minutes or 1.1 per game in his career.

Thanks for the gripes.

Oct 9, 2023 11:10:57 GMT -5 leflop said:

Aminu - Looking at his stocks I'm surprised he's a B, felt like he was a solid defender but was expecting b-
Budinger - I think his out should be lowered, i remembered him being a good shooter but his stats were lower than expected. also am thinking b- inside since he had hops and was in a dunk contest and did ok
Douglas Roberts - Feel like C+ inside C outside fits his shot profile better
Collison - Feels like he's a low b- defender rather than a high c+, at least from memory. Over a steal per game. Would argue he has same handles rating as Bledsoe (B+)
Lin - C inside maybe - did not get into the rim a lot imo

- Al-Farouq Aminu: He's a fringe B, but I do think it's accurate. He was a solid 3&D guy who could play both forward positions.
- Chase Budinger: 35% threes on over 5 attempts per 36 minutes feels like it's deserving of a low B grade, to me.
- Chris Douglas-Roberts: I definitely think CDR deserves a C+ OUT grade. As for the INS, I don't think he showed enough scoring in the NBA to bump the grade up.
- Darren Collison: Already addressed both of these above.
- Jeremy Lin: I think his scoring requires a C+ INS grade at the minimum.

Thanks for the gripes.

Oct 2, 2023 8:36:09 GMT -5 CC06 said:

Change Log:
Anthony Morrow OUT: B+ to A-
Avery Bradley OUT: B+ to B
Avery Bradley DEF: B- to B
DeAndre Jordan DEF: B- to B
DeMar DeRozan HAN: B- to B
Dennis Horner DEF: D to D+
Derrick Caracter INS: C- to C
Eric Blesdoe HAN: B+ to B
Eric Bledsoe DEF: A- to B+
Goran Dragic OUT: B to B+
Greg Monroe INS: B- to B
James Johnson DEF: B to B-
Jrue Holiday INS: C+ to B-
Justin Williams REB: B+ to B-
Kosta Koufos INS: C to C+
Marcus Thornton INS: C to C+
Nikola Pekovic INS: C+ to B-
Patrick Beverley INS: C+ to C
Ramon Sessions HAN: C+ to B-
Serge Ibaka HAN: D to D+
Serge Ibaka DEF: B to B+
Taj Gibson INS: C+ to B-
Trey Gilder DEF: D+ to C-

Updated.

James Johnson: Handles to C+, heavily weighted by a good passing grade. At his best (Heat point forward era in my opinion) he was able to serve as a de-facto creator for a mid Miami team and keep them competitive. Super underrated player. Also don’t think this does much to inflate his value or anything.

Alonzo Gee: I’d argue he’s closer to B+ defense than B- or C+… was used as a stopper primarily, and stuck around for a bit in that role. If he entered the draft in 2023 as a 20 year old I think he would have been a first rounder, the defensive versatility at his size seems to have been forgotten.

Greg Monroe - Handling peak to C+ at least, not sure how much physical attributes are limiting this but his best trait is vision/playmaking. Sabonis-esque before Jokic and co, I’d like to think prime Monroe could have been a 15/10/7 type big in that role.