Base File Peak Grades: Shooting Guards

A few weeks ago, I dumped a ton of players ratings into Discord with the intent of getting some feedback. The response was tepid at best, so I wanted to try to give you those same ratings in a different format to see if the sheer amount of players on the index overwhelmed those who may have been willing to gripe the file. I'm going to do this position by position and rating by rating, with the idea being simply to make it easier to eyeball things that you find off. As with all gripes, suggesting what should be changed is more helpful than simply making an observation and leaving me to figure out what you think should be updated.

As I mentioned in Discord, this originally started as a random selection of players from 1996-2008. I've since added a few more players from these drafts, as well as added more players from the 2009 and 2010 drafts. All of these ratings are the players as they were considered in their peaks; do not worry about a "base year".

Any +1's or -1's noted are differences from the original ratings posted on Discord.

One last note, the sorting within grades is alphabetical and is not attempting to rank players.

Thanks to those of you who end up helping!

Inside Scoring

A+:
---------------
A:
---------------
A-:
DeMar DeRozan (NEW)
Dwyane Wade
James Harden (NEW)
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
Vince Carter
---------------
B+:
Brandon Roy
Jason Richardson
---------------
B:
Andre Iguodala (+1)
Ray Allen
---------------
B-:
Cuttino Mobley
Eric Gordon
Gerald Green
Gerald Henderson (NEW)
J.R. Smith
Joe Johnson
Kevin Martin
Manu Ginobili
Michael Redd
Monta Ellis
Nick Young
Richard Hamilton (-1)
Ricky Davis
Shannon Brown
Tony Allen
Tyreke Evans (NEW)
---------------
C+:
Arron Afflalo
Avery Bradley (NEW)
Ben Gordon
Charles Smith (NEW)
Courtney Alexander
Dahntay Jones
Derek Anderson
DeShawn Stevenson (+1)
Fred Jones
Jamal Crawford
Jordan Crawford (NEW)
Kelenna Azubuike
Lance Stephenson (NEW)
Larry Hughes
Leandro Barbosa
Marquis Daniels
Morris Peterson
O.J. Mayo
Quentin Richardson
Raja Bell
Ronald Murray
Rudy Fernandez
Shandon Anderson
Tariq Abdul-Wahad
Von Wafer
Wesley Matthews (NEW)
---------------
C:
Adrian Griffin
Anthony Morrow
Anthony Parker
Brandon Armstrong
Brandon Rush
Casey Jacobsen
Charlie Bell
Courtney Lee
Daequan Cook
Danny Green (NEW)
Dion Glover
Erick Strickland (NEW)
Felipe Lopez (-1)
Garrett Temple (NEW)
Gordan Giricek (NEW)
Greg Buckner
Ime Udoka
J.J. Redick
Josh Childress
Juan Dixon (NEW)
Kareem Rush
Keith Bogans
Kerry Kittles
Kyle Korver
Landry Fields (NEW)
Luther Head
Marco Belinelli
Maurice Evans
Orien Greene (NEW)
Quincy Lewis
Quinton Ross
Rodney Buford
Roger Mason Jr.
Sasha Vujacic
Thabo Sefolosha
Trenton Hassell
Wayne Ellington (NEW)
---------------
C-:
---------------
D+:
---------------
D:
---------------
D-:
---------------
F+:
---------------
F:
---------------
F-:

Outside Scoring

A+:
---------------
A:
---------------
A-:
Anthony Morrow
Ben Gordon
J.J. Redick
Kyle Korver
Ray Allen
---------------
B+:
Anthony Parker
Danny Green (NEW)
James Harden (NEW)
Leandro Barbosa
Marco Belinelli (+1)
Raja Bell
Roger Mason Jr.
Wesley Matthews (NEW)
---------------
B:
Arron Afflalo (-1)
Avery Bradley (NEW)
Brandon Roy
Brandon Rush
Courtney Lee
Cuttino Mobley
Daequan Cook
Eric Gordon
Gerald Green (-1)
J.R. Smith
Jamal Crawford
Jason Richardson
Joe Johnson
Kelenna Azubuike
Kerry Kittles
Kevin Martin
Kobe Bryant
Luther Head
Manu Ginobili
Maurice Evans
Michael Redd
Morris Peterson
Nick Young
O.J. Mayo
Richard Hamilton
Rudy Fernandez
Sasha Vujacic (-1)
Tracy McGrady
Vince Carter
Wayne Ellington (NEW)
---------------
B-:
Casey Jacobsen
Charlie Bell
Courtney Alexander
DeMar DeRozan (NEW)
Derek Anderson
DeShawn Stevenson
Erick Strickland (NEW)
Fred Jones
Garrett Temple (NEW)
Gordan Giricek (NEW)
Ime Udoka
Jordan Crawford (NEW)
Juan Dixon (NEW)
Kareem Rush
Keith Bogans
Quentin Richardson
Ricky Davis
Thabo Sefolosha
---------------
C+:
Andre Iguodala
Brandon Armstrong
Charles Smith (NEW)
Dahntay Jones
Dion Glover
Dwyane Wade
Gerald Henderson (NEW)
Greg Buckner (-1)
Josh Childress
Lance Stephenson (NEW)
Landry Fields (NEW)
Larry Hughes
Monta Ellis
Quincy Lewis
Rodney Buford
Ronald Murray
Shandon Anderson
Shannon Brown
Tyreke Evans (NEW)
Von Wafer
---------------
C:
Adrian Griffin (-1)
Felipe Lopez
Marquis Daniels
Orien Greene (NEW)
Quinton Ross
Tony Allen
Trenton Hassell
---------------
C-:
Tariq Abdul-Wahad
---------------
D+:
---------------
D:
---------------
D-:
---------------
F+:
---------------
F:
---------------
F-:

Handling

A+:
---------------
A:
---------------
A-:
James Harden (NEW)
---------------
B+:
Dwyane Wade (-1)
---------------
B:
Tracy McGrady
---------------
B-:
Brandon Roy (-1)
DeMar DeRozan (NEW)
Kobe Bryant
Manu Ginobili
---------------
C+:
Andre Iguodala
Jamal Crawford
Joe Johnson
Monta Ellis
Ray Allen (+1)
Richard Hamilton (+1)
Tyreke Evans (NEW)
Vince Carter
---------------
C:
Adrian Griffin
Anthony Parker
Arron Afflalo
Ben Gordon
Charlie Bell
Cuttino Mobley
Derek Anderson
DeShawn Stevenson
Eric Gordon
Erick Strickland (NEW)
Fred Jones
Gerald Henderson (NEW)
J.J. Redick
J.R. Smith
Jason Richardson
Jordan Crawford (NEW)
Juan Dixon (NEW)
Kerry Kittles
Lance Stephenson (NEW)
Larry Hughes
Leandro Barbosa
Luther Head
Marquis Daniels
Michael Redd
O.J. Mayo
Raja Bell (+1)
Ricky Davis
Roger Mason Jr.
Ronald Murray
Rudy Fernandez
Sasha Vujacic
Trenton Hassell (+1)
Wesley Matthews (NEW)
---------------
C-:
Avery Bradley (NEW)
Charles Smith (NEW)
Courtney Alexander
Courtney Lee
Daequan Cook (+1)
Dahntay Jones
Danny Green (NEW)
Dion Glover
Garrett Temple (NEW)
Gerald Green (+1)
Gordan Giricek (NEW)
Greg Buckner
Ime Udoka (+1)
Josh Childress (+1)
Kareem Rush
Keith Bogans
Kevin Martin
Kyle Korver
Landry Fields (NEW)
Marco Belinelli
Maurice Evans (+1)
Morris Peterson
Orien Greene (NEW)
Quentin Richardson
Quinton Ross
Rodney Buford (+1)
Shandon Anderson
Shannon Brown
Thabo Sefolosha
Tony Allen (+1)
Von Wafer
Wayne Ellington (NEW)
---------------
D+:
Anthony Morrow
Brandon Armstrong (+1)
Brandon Rush
Casey Jacobsen
Felipe Lopez
Kelenna Azubuike
Nick Young
Quincy Lewis (+1)
Tariq Abdul-Wahad
---------------
D:
---------------
D-:
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F+:
---------------
F:
---------------
F-:

Defense

A+:
---------------
A:
Tony Allen (+1)
---------------
A-:
Andre Iguodala
Dwyane Wade
Kobe Bryant
---------------
B+:
Avery Bradley (NEW)
Danny Green (NEW)
Thabo Sefolosha
---------------
B:
Kerry Kittles
Larry Hughes
Manu Ginobili
Tracy McGrady (-1)
---------------
B-:
Adrian Griffin (+1)
Brandon Roy
Courtney Lee (+1)
Garrett Temple (NEW)
Keith Bogans (+2)
Marquis Daniels (-1)
Raja Bell (+1)
Ray Allen
Wesley Matthews (NEW)
---------------
C+:
Anthony Parker
Arron Afflalo
Brandon Rush
Charles Smith (NEW)
Cuttino Mobley
Dahntay Jones (+1)
DeMar DeRozan (NEW)
Derek Anderson
DeShawn Stevenson
Eric Gordon
Erick Strickland (NEW)
Greg Buckner
J.R. Smith
James Harden (NEW)
Jason Richardson
Joe Johnson
Kyle Korver (+1)
Lance Stephenson (NEW)
Landry Fields (NEW)
Luther Head
Maurice Evans (+1)
Monta Ellis
Morris Peterson (+1)
O.J. Mayo
Orien Greene (NEW)
Quentin Richardson (+1)
Richard Hamilton
Ricky Davis
Shandon Anderson
Shannon Brown
Trenton Hassell
Tyreke Evans (NEW)
Vince Carter (-1)
---------------
C:
Anthony Morrow
Ben Gordon
Brandon Armstrong
Casey Jacobsen
Charlie Bell
Courtney Alexander
Daequan Cook
Dion Glover
Felipe Lopez
Fred Jones (-1)
Gerald Green
Gerald Henderson (NEW)
Gordan Giricek (NEW)
Ime Udoka
J.J. Redick
Jamal Crawford
Jordan Crawford (NEW)
Josh Childress
Juan Dixon (NEW)
Kareem Rush
Kelenna Azubuike
Kevin Martin (-1)
Leandro Barbosa
Marco Belinelli
Michael Redd (-1)
Nick Young
Quincy Lewis
Quinton Ross
Rodney Buford
Roger Mason Jr.
Ronald Murray
Rudy Fernandez
Sasha Vujacic
Tariq Abdul-Wahad
Von Wafer
Wayne Ellington (NEW)
---------------
C-:
---------------
D+:
---------------
D:
---------------
D-:
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F+:
---------------
F:
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F-:

Rebounding

A+:
---------------
A:
---------------
A-:
---------------
B+:
---------------
B:
---------------
B-:
---------------
C+:
---------------
C:
Adrian Griffin
Andre Iguodala
Brandon Roy
Dwyane Wade
Greg Buckner
Ime Udoka
James Harden (NEW)
Jason Richardson
Josh Childress
Kelenna Azubuike
Kobe Bryant
Lance Stephenson (NEW)
Landry Fields (NEW)
Manu Ginobili
Marquis Daniels
Morris Peterson (+1)
Quentin Richardson
Shandon Anderson
Tariq Abdul-Wahad
Thabo Sefolosha
Tony Allen
Tracy McGrady
Tyreke Evans (NEW)
Vince Carter
---------------
C-:
Anthony Parker
Arron Afflalo
Avery Bradley (NEW)
Ben Gordon
Brandon Rush
Charles Smith (NEW)
Courtney Alexander
Cuttino Mobley
Daequan Cook
Dahntay Jones
Danny Green (NEW)
DeMar DeRozan (NEW)
Derek Anderson
DeShawn Stevenson
Dion Glover
Erick Strickland (NEW)
Felipe Lopez
Garrett Temple (NEW)
Gerald Green
Gerald Henderson (NEW)
Gordan Giricek (NEW)
J.R. Smith
Joe Johnson
Jordan Crawford (NEW)
Keith Bogans
Kerry Kittles
Kevin Martin
Kyle Korver
Larry Hughes (-1)
Luther Head
Maurice Evans
Michael Redd
Monta Ellis
O.J. Mayo
Orien Greene (NEW)
Quincy Lewis
Quinton Ross
Raja Bell
Ray Allen
Richard Hamilton
Ricky Davis
Rodney Buford (-1)
Rudy Fernandez
Sasha Vujacic
Shannon Brown
Trenton Hassell
Wesley Matthews (NEW)
---------------
D+:
Anthony Morrow (-1)
Brandon Armstrong
Casey Jacobsen (-1)
Charlie Bell
Courtney Lee
Eric Gordon
Fred Jones (-1)
J.J. Redick
Jamal Crawford
Juan Dixon (NEW)
Kareem Rush (-1)
Leandro Barbosa
Marco Belinelli
Nick Young
Roger Mason Jr.
Ronald Murray (-1)
Von Wafer
Wayne Ellington (NEW)
---------------
D:
---------------
D-:
---------------
F+:
---------------
F:
---------------
F-:

Great job on the A's given out for inside scoring. No complaints from me there at all. I think you could argue for Tyreke Evans to be bumped up a tier in inside scoring. He was a great paint finisher no diddy. I would raise Korver and JJ's outside grade to A's. It's not a big deal but I think there is a case for EG to be a B+ outside scorer if guys like Wesley Matthews are. Kobe should 100 percent at least be in the B tier for handling. Demar wasn't a better primary handler or facilitator than Kobe. I'd raise Keith Bogans to a B- defensively. I'd lower Harden's defensive grade and upgrade Raja and Brandon Rush.

Only thing I’ll say is that Michael Redd and Eric Gordon’s outside ratings shouldn’t be lower than Richard Hamilton’s. Good job with everything else

Apr 16, 2024 17:01:05 GMT -5 tyo said:

Great job on the A's given out for inside scoring. No complaints from me there at all. I think you could argue for Tyreke Evans to be bumped up a tier in inside scoring. He was a great paint finisher no diddy. I would raise Korver and JJ's outside grade to A's. It's not a big deal but I think there is a case for EG to be a B+ outside scorer if guys like Wesley Matthews are. Kobe should 100 percent at least be in the B tier for handling. Demar wasn't a better primary handler or facilitator than Kobe. I'd raise Keith Bogans to a B- defensively. I'd lower Harden's defensive grade and upgrade Raja and Brandon Rush.

- Tyreke Evans: If I was just basing his ratings off his rookie season, I could maybe see an argument for him going up an entire tier, but as I've mentioned before, I'm looking at three-year peaks usually with players, and Evans never matched that per-game scoring total again in his career. I will give him a slight boost in the B- tier, but I think he should stay there.
- Kyle Korver / J.J. Redick: Not saying I won't end up doing this, because if anybody was to go up out of the shooting guards, it would be these two. But, nobody has an A OUT grade in this file at the moment, not even Stephen Curry. If that does end up changing, I'll bump the guys who deserve it.
- Eric Gordon: If I was building later-career Gordon where he just transformed into a gunner, I think the B+ OUT is valid, but I tried to find a mix of his earlier days pre-injury where he wasn't so reliant on the three-point shot. If I was going to raise his OUT grade, I'd have to lower his INS grade to be fair, and I figured this was the better alternative.
- Kobe Bryant / DeMar DeRozan: I'd rather lower DeMar than raise Kobe. You could argue that late-career DeMar has actually emerged as a better playmaker than Kobe ever was in his career, though the counterargument would be that Kobe's playmaking was nerfed in the triangle just like Jordan's was. I'll lower DeMar to B- HAN grade and even the two out.
- Keith Bogans: Agreed, I'll up him to B- DEF.
- James Harden: Agreed, I'll lower him to C+ DEF.
- Raja Bell: His Stealing and Blocking ratings are too low to get him into consideration for a tier higher.
- Brandon Rush: I can up him to C+ DEF.

Thank you for the gripes.

Apr 17, 2024 15:28:40 GMT -5 kdogg said:

Only thing I’ll say is that Michael Redd and Eric Gordon’s outside ratings shouldn’t be lower than Richard Hamilton’s. Good job with everything else

I'm fine with lowering Richard Hamilton's OUT grade to B, but I do want to note that mid-range shot goes into this grade too.

-Inside Scoring:
I think Tony Allen being at the same tier as guys like Richard Hamilton, Manu, Joe Johnson, Monta and Tyreek Evans is insane. He wasn't a bad slasher by any means but he was the very last option for his teams offensively whereas the ohter guys were volume scorers, except Ginobili who is the guy who popularized the euro step. C+ is more fitting imo.

-Outside Scoring:
Avery Bradley too high imo. He shouldn't be in the same tier shooting wise, with guys like Eric Gordon, J.R., Afflalo, Courtney Lee etc. His volume on 3s for a guard was not anything special and his percentage behind the arc was solid but not great (36.5% on his career on 3 3s a game). His midrange game was also not elite compared to the likes of Kobe, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton etc who are also in this category due to their midrange game. B- is better suited for him imo. Thabo Sefolosha should also be downgraded. 35% from 3 on his career on under 2 attempts a game whilst also not having a great midrange game either. I don't see how he differs from a guy like Iguodala or Monta Ellis who are both at C+. Tony Allen could also get demoted to C-. 28% on 3s for his career (worse than Demar) who also had 0 midrange game. A guy like Hassell who was also pretty bad from downtown is at 32% for his career (on the same attempts per game weirdly enough) for perspective. Can't be in the same tier.

-Handling:
Manu should be at a B- AT LEAST. Great passer, elite vision and integral part to one of, if not the most motion-based offense in league history, which requires more than capable playmakers. I don't see how a guy like Demar is a whole tier above him. Also hesitant to leave Tyreke in this tier. Very capable playmaker who got screwed over by the Kings' management who took the ball out of his hands, whilst him being a big and athletic PG who can make reads and slash to the rim was his entire game. I would also advocate for him being B-.

-Defense:
Sefolosha should be in the same tier as Danny Green i believe. I don't see what really seperates them as defenders in order to be on seperate tiers. I am fine with either one (Green going down or Thabo going up) but I think Thabo going up is the better choice.

-Rebounding:
Too much congestion in the C tier. I get it that most of these guys are like 6'3 but Harden for example could get a C+ since he was averaging 6 rpg from 2016 to 2020. Sure most were easy boards but sometimes volume matters. Hence a slight bump to C+. Demar could also possibly get pushed to C. 4.4 rpg a game, has a season with 6 a game and 3 more seasons with 5+.

May 10, 2024 15:25:59 GMT -5 nickmolyvia said:

-Inside Scoring:
I think Tony Allen being at the same tier as guys like Richard Hamilton, Manu, Joe Johnson, Monta and Tyreek Evans is insane. He wasn't a bad slasher by any means but he was the very last option for his teams offensively whereas the ohter guys were volume scorers, except Ginobili who is the guy who popularized the euro step. C+ is more fitting imo.

-Outside Scoring:
Avery Bradley too high imo. He shouldn't be in the same tier shooting wise, with guys like Eric Gordon, J.R., Afflalo, Courtney Lee etc. His volume on 3s for a guard was not anything special and his percentage behind the arc was solid but not great (36.5% on his career on 3 3s a game). His midrange game was also not elite compared to the likes of Kobe, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton etc who are also in this category due to their midrange game. B- is better suited for him imo. Thabo Sefolosha should also be downgraded. 35% from 3 on his career on under 2 attempts a game whilst also not having a great midrange game either. I don't see how he differs from a guy like Iguodala or Monta Ellis who are both at C+. Tony Allen could also get demoted to C-. 28% on 3s for his career (worse than Demar) who also had 0 midrange game. A guy like Hassell who was also pretty bad from downtown is at 32% for his career (on the same attempts per game weirdly enough) for perspective. Can't be in the same tier.

-Handling:
Manu should be at a B- AT LEAST. Great passer, elite vision and integral part to one of, if not the most motion-based offense in league history, which requires more than capable playmakers. I don't see how a guy like Demar is a whole tier above him. Also hesitant to leave Tyreke in this tier. Very capable playmaker who got screwed over by the Kings' management who took the ball out of his hands, whilst him being a big and athletic PG who can make reads and slash to the rim was his entire game. I would also advocate for him being B-.

-Defense:
Sefolosha should be in the same tier as Danny Green i believe. I don't see what really seperates them as defenders in order to be on seperate tiers. I am fine with either one (Green going down or Thabo going up) but I think Thabo going up is the better choice.

-Rebounding:
Too much congestion in the C tier. I get it that most of these guys are like 6'3 but Harden for example could get a C+ since he was averaging 6 rpg from 2016 to 2020. Sure most were easy boards but sometimes volume matters. Hence a slight bump to C+. Demar could also possibly get pushed to C. 4.4 rpg a game, has a season with 6 a game and 3 more seasons with 5+.

INSIDE SCORING

- Tony Allen: I understand he isn't the same scorer as the other guys you named, hence why his OUT grade is much lower. As far as just INS goes, he could slash to the basket, and he's got above average Strength and Vertical ratings for the position. Even with that, it's right on the fringe. Sometimes that Jumping rating can boost a guy higher than you'd think; Gerald Henderson and Gerald Green are probably also examples of that.

OUTSIDE SCORING

- Avery Bradley: I'm going to disagree with you here. In his prime, Avery Bradley was 36.6% from three on five attempts per game. In that same stretch, he was ~41% from mid-range on roughly five attempts per game. I absolutely think he deserves a B OUT grade.
- Thabo Sefolosha: I actually think he was a better three-point shooter than you're giving him credit for. He definitely had some bad years, but there's also some years in OKC where he shot ~42% from three on low volume. I usually look at peaks in three-year spans, so add in a bad year around that and we're talking a ~39% three-year sample on three attempts per 36. I think the B- OUT grade is deserved.
- Tony Allen: I don't disagree with your take on his shooting, and there are years in there where he would certainly be a C- OUT grade because he wasn't shooting at all. But it's almost impossible to get somebody who shoots threes at all lower than a C OUT grade. I've lowered his ratings some, but he's so far away from being a C- OUT grade still.

HANDLING

- Manu Ginobili: I'm fine bumping him back up to B- HAN grade, but I moreso don't get why multiple people have come for DeRozan's grade here now. He averaged nearly 7 assists per game in his last season with the Spurs. The B- HAN grade is right.
- Tyreke Evans: He's not far from the fringe, and I understand the arguments, but I think a C+ HAN grade is more apt.

DEFENSE

- Thabo Sefolosha / Danny Green: I'm fine upping Thabo to a B+ DEF grade (he's right on the fringe as it is), but just to correct your statement, Danny Green was a significantly better shot blocker. In fact, he and Dwyane Wade are the two shooting guards with the highest rating there.

REBOUNDING

The congestion is there because none of the perimeter players are good enough offensive rebounders. Harden, the best defensive rebounder among the shooting guards, has an 18 Offensive Rebounding rating. The C grades here aren't even necessarily high C's. Also worth noting that the game caps SG rebounding ratings at 60 (I'd bring a guy in at SF, where these are uncapped, if I had to).