Base File Peak Grades: Centers

A few weeks ago, I dumped a ton of players ratings into Discord with the intent of getting some feedback. The response was tepid at best, so I wanted to try to give you those same ratings in a different format to see if the sheer amount of players on the index overwhelmed those who may have been willing to gripe the file. I'm going to do this position by position and rating by rating, with the idea being simply to make it easier to eyeball things that you find off. As with all gripes, suggesting what should be changed is more helpful than simply making an observation and leaving me to figure out what you think should be updated.

As I mentioned in Discord, this originally started as a random selection of players from 1996-2008. I've since added a few more players from these drafts, as well as added more players from the 2009 and 2010 drafts. All of these ratings are the players as they were considered in their peaks; do not worry about a "base year".

Any +1's or -1's noted are differences from the original ratings posted on Discord.

One last note, the sorting within grades is alphabetical and is not attempting to rank players.

Thanks to those of you who end up helping!

Inside Scoring

A+:
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A:
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A-:
Dwight Howard
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B+:
DeMarcus Cousins (NEW)
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B:
Yao Ming
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B-:
Al Horford
Brook Lopez (-1)
Chris Kaman (+1)
DeAndre Jordan
Derrick Favors (NEW)
Eddy Curry
Greg Monroe (NEW)
Hassan Whiteside (NEW)
Jamaal Magloire
JaVale McGee
Marcin Gortat
Nene Hilario (-1)
Tyson Chandler
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
---------------
C+:
Anderson Varejao
Andrew Bogut
Aron Baynes (NEW)
Ben Wallace
Boban Marjanovic (NEW)
Brad Miller
Brendan Haywood
Chris Andersen
Darko Milicic
Emeka Okafor
Erick Dampier
Etan Thomas
Greg Oden (-1)
Ian Mahinmi
Jarron Collins
Jeff Foster
Jelani McCoy
Joakim Noah
Kendrick Perkins
Larry Sanders (NEW)
Marc Gasol
Marc Jackson (NEW)
Marcus Camby
Mark Blount
Marreese Speights
Michael Olowokandi
Nazr Mohammed
Raef LaFrentz
Robin Lopez
Ronny Turiaf
Roy Hibbert
Ryan Hollins
Steven Hunter
Tiago Splitter
Timofey Mozgov
Wang Zhizhi
Zaza Pachulia
---------------
C:
Adonal Foyle
Alexis Ajinca
Bruno Sundov (NEW)
Calvin Booth (-1)
D.J. Mbenga
DeSagana Diop
Evan Eschmeyer
Fabricio Oberto (-1)
Francisco Elson
Jahidi White (NEW)
Jake Voskuhl
Jason Collins
Joel Anthony
Johan Petro
John Thomas
Melvin Ely (-1)
Michael Doleac
Omer Asik
Pat Burke (NEW)
Predrag Drobnjak (NEW)
Scot Pollard
Solomon Jones
Todd MacCulloch
Travis Knight
Vitaly Potapenko (NEW)
Vladimir Stepania
---------------
C-:
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D+:
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D:
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D-:
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F+:
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F:
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F-:

Outside Scoring

A+:
---------------
A:
---------------
A-:
---------------
B+:
---------------
B:
Al Horford
Wang Zhizhi
---------------
B-:
Brook Lopez
Marc Gasol
Marreese Speights (-1)
Raef LaFrentz
---------------
C+:
Aron Baynes (NEW)
Brad Miller (-1)
DeMarcus Cousins (NEW)
Predrag Drobnjak (NEW)
---------------
C:
Alexis Ajinca
Boban Marjanovic (NEW)
Bruno Sundov (NEW)
Mark Blount
Michael Doleac
Pat Burke (NEW)
Robin Lopez
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
---------------
C-:
Anderson Varejao
Andrew Bogut
Brendan Haywood
Calvin Booth
Chris Andersen
Chris Kaman
D.J. Mbenga
DeAndre Jordan
Derrick Favors (NEW)
Dwight Howard
Eddy Curry
Emeka Okafor
Erick Dampier
Etan Thomas
Fabricio Oberto
Francisco Elson
Greg Monroe (NEW)
Hassan Whiteside (NEW)
Ian Mahinmi
Jake Voskuhl
Jamaal Magloire
Jarron Collins
Jason Collins (-1)
JaVale McGee
Jeff Foster
Joakim Noah
Joel Anthony
Johan Petro
John Thomas
Kendrick Perkins
Marc Jackson (NEW)
Marcin Gortat
Marcus Camby
Melvin Ely
Nazr Mohammed
Nene Hilario
Omer Asik
Ronny Turiaf
Roy Hibbert
Ryan Hollins
Scot Pollard
Solomon Jones
Tiago Splitter
Timofey Mozgov
Todd MacCulloch
Travis Knight (-1)
Tyson Chandler
Vitaly Potapenko (NEW)
Yao Ming
Zaza Pachulia
---------------
D+:
Adonal Foyle (-1)
Ben Wallace
Darko Milicic (-1)
DeSagana Diop (-1)
Evan Eschmeyer
Greg Oden
Jahidi White (NEW)
Jelani McCoy
Larry Sanders (NEW)
Michael Olowokandi
Steven Hunter (-1)
Vladimir Stepania
---------------
D:
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D-:
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F+:
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F:
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F-:

Handling

A+:
---------------
A:
---------------
A-:
---------------
B+:
---------------
B:
---------------
B-:
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C+:
---------------
C:
Al Horford
Brad Miller
DeMarcus Cousins (NEW)
Joakim Noah
Marc Gasol
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C-:
Andrew Bogut
Ben Wallace (+1)
Greg Monroe (NEW)
Marcus Camby
Ronny Turiaf
Zaza Pachulia (+1)
---------------
D+:
Anderson Varejao
Brook Lopez
Derrick Favors (NEW)
Fabricio Oberto
Jarron Collins (+1)
Jason Collins (+1)
Nene Hilario (-1)
Raef LaFrentz (+1)
Roy Hibbert
Tiago Splitter
Yao Ming (+1)
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (+1)
---------------
D:
Aron Baynes (NEW)
Boban Marjanovic (NEW)
Chris Andersen (+1)
Chris Kaman
Darko Milicic (+1)
DeAndre Jordan
Dwight Howard
Erick Dampier (+1)
Hassan Whiteside (NEW)
JaVale McGee (+1)
Jeff Foster
Kendrick Perkins (+1)
Larry Sanders (NEW)
Marc Jackson (NEW)
Marcin Gortat
Marreese Speights
Melvin Ely
Michael Doleac (+1)
Predrag Drobnjak (NEW)
Robin Lopez
Todd MacCulloch (+1)
Travis Knight
Wang Zhizhi (+1)
---------------
D-:
Adonal Foyle (+1)
Alexis Ajinca
Brendan Haywood
Bruno Sundov (NEW)
Calvin Booth
D.J. Mbenga
DeSagana Diop (+1)
Emeka Okafor
Etan Thomas (+1)
Evan Eschmeyer
Francisco Elson
Greg Oden
Ian Mahinmi
Jake Voskuhl
Jamaal Magloire
Jelani McCoy
Joel Anthony (+1)
John Thomas (+1)
Mark Blount
Michael Olowokandi
Nazr Mohammed
Omer Asik
Pat Burke (NEW)
Scot Pollard
Solomon Jones (+1)
Steven Hunter (+1)
Timofey Mozgov (+1)
Tyson Chandler
Vitaly Potapenko (NEW)
Vladimir Stepania (+1)
---------------
F+:
Eddy Curry
Jahidi White (NEW)
Johan Petro (-1)
Ryan Hollins
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F:
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F-:

Defense

A+:
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A:
Ben Wallace
Dwight Howard
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A-:
Al Horford
Andrew Bogut
Brook Lopez
Joakim Noah
Marc Gasol
Marcus Camby
Roy Hibbert
Yao Ming
---------------
B+:
Adonal Foyle (-1)
Brendan Haywood
Emeka Okafor
JaVale McGee
Kendrick Perkins
Raef LaFrentz
Robin Lopez
Ronny Turiaf
Tyson Chandler
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
---------------
B:
Anderson Varejao
Chris Andersen (-1)
Chris Kaman
Darko Milicic (-1)
DeAndre Jordan (-1)
Derrick Favors (NEW)
Greg Oden
Hassan Whiteside (NEW)
Jamaal Magloire
Joel Anthony
Marcin Gortat
Nene Hilario
---------------
B-:
Calvin Booth (-1)
D.J. Mbenga
DeMarcus Cousins (NEW)
DeSagana Diop
Erick Dampier (-1)
Etan Thomas
Ian Mahinmi
Jason Collins
Larry Sanders (NEW)
Nazr Mohammed
Omer Asik
Scot Pollard (-1)
Steven Hunter (-1)
Tiago Splitter
Timofey Mozgov
Zaza Pachulia (+1)
---------------
C+:
Alexis Ajinca
Aron Baynes (NEW)
Brad Miller
Evan Eschmeyer
Fabricio Oberto
Francisco Elson
Jeff Foster
Jelani McCoy
Johan Petro
Mark Blount
Marreese Speights
Melvin Ely
Michael Doleac
Michael Olowokandi (-1)
Ryan Hollins (-1)
Todd MacCulloch
Travis Knight
---------------
C:
Boban Marjanovic (NEW)
Bruno Sundov (NEW)
Eddy Curry
Greg Monroe (NEW)
Jahidi White (NEW)
Jake Voskuhl
Jarron Collins
John Thomas
Marc Jackson (NEW)
Pat Burke (NEW)
Predrag Drobnjak (NEW)
Solomon Jones (-1)
Vitaly Potapenko (NEW)
Vladimir Stepania (-1)
Wang Zhizhi
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C-:
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D+:
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D:
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D-:
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F+:
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F:
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F-:

Rebounding

A+:
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A:
Hassan Whiteside (NEW)
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A-:
Ben Wallace
Boban Marjanovic (NEW)
DeAndre Jordan
Dwight Howard
Erick Dampier (+1)
Greg Oden
Jeff Foster
Marcus Camby
Omer Asik
---------------
B+:
Anderson Varejao
Andrew Bogut
DeMarcus Cousins (NEW)
Emeka Okafor
Jahidi White (NEW)
Jamaal Magloire
JaVale McGee
Joakim Noah
Nazr Mohammed
Tyson Chandler
Vladimir Stepania
Zaza Pachulia
---------------
B:
Chris Kaman
Derrick Favors (NEW)
DeSagana Diop
Greg Monroe (NEW)
Marcin Gortat
Roy Hibbert
Scot Pollard
Yao Ming
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
---------------
B-:
Adonal Foyle
Alexis Ajinca (-1)
Aron Baynes (NEW)
Brad Miller
Brendan Haywood (-1)
Chris Andersen
Etan Thomas (-1)
Evan Eschmeyer
Ian Mahinmi
Kendrick Perkins
Larry Sanders (NEW)
Marreese Speights
Robin Lopez
Tiago Splitter
Timofey Mozgov
Todd MacCulloch
Travis Knight
---------------
C+:
Al Horford
Brook Lopez
Calvin Booth
D.J. Mbenga
Darko Milicic
Fabricio Oberto (-1)
Francisco Elson
Jake Voskuhl (-1)
Jason Collins
Jelani McCoy
Johan Petro
Marc Gasol
Marc Jackson (NEW)
Mark Blount
Michael Doleac
Michael Olowokandi (-1)
Nene Hilario
Raef LaFrentz
Ronny Turiaf
Steven Hunter
Vitaly Potapenko (NEW)
---------------
C:
Bruno Sundov (NEW)
Eddy Curry
Jarron Collins
Joel Anthony
John Thomas
Melvin Ely
Pat Burke (NEW)
Predrag Drobnjak (NEW)
Ryan Hollins (-1)
Solomon Jones (-1)
Wang Zhizhi
---------------
C-:
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D+:
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D:
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D-:
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F+:
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F:
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F-:

Minor gripe but it doesn’t seem right for Yao to have the same outside rating as most of those other C- guys. He didn’t shoot threes but his mid-range and/or free throw shooting numbers were much better than almost everybody else with that grade. I’d keep Yao at the same grade and lower the guys (like Dwight, Asik, DeAndre, etc.) who weren’t even allowed to shoot outside of the paint

Apr 17, 2024 12:55:04 GMT -5 kdogg said:

Minor gripe but it doesn’t seem right for Yao to have the same outside rating as most of those other C- guys. He didn’t shoot threes but his mid-range and/or free throw shooting numbers were much better than almost everybody else with that grade. I’d keep Yao at the same grade and lower the guys (like Dwight, Asik, DeAndre, etc.) who weren’t even allowed to shoot outside of the paint

I promise the Jumpshot rating is there with Yao and if I bump his 3P rating just two points he goes to a C OUT grade. Also, for what it's worth, I don't think Yao was quite the mid-range shooter people make him out to be based on his free throw percentage.

Tyson Chandler A- def

Feels odd for Marc Gasol to have SUCH a low HAN grade, I am aware that it's different for centers and big men generally but Gasol was certainly someone deserving of a B- or C+ imo. Would consider Joakim Noah for a bump in that department as well.

-Inside Scoring:
Derrick Favors and Nene in the same tier as Yao bothers me a lot ngl. B+ for Yao i think is a very logical gripe, if not mandatory. Brook Lopez could be bumped to a B if we are talking peak since he wasn't shooting any 3s during his individual peak. He was a pure post scorer averaging 20 a game off of pure inside scoring. I think he should be at B. Would also advocate for Al Horford going to a B- since during his peak he was averaging 16 a game on just 1 3pt attempt a game. He did utilize the midrange a bit (mostly 16-3pt) but exactly 50% of his shots came within 10 feet in his 3-4 year peak with the Hawks. I think having him on the same tier as Ben Wallace is disrespectful.

-Outside Scoring:
Not a grade gripe but mostly stat gripe, idk what Horford's ratings look like but the 3 should not be high since, as aforementioned, he was barely shooting 3s at his peak. His midrange should take up most of his B grade due to his outrageously good splits (47% from 16-3pt with 30% of your shots coming from there is pure insanity). LaFrentz should also be a B, especially if Zhizhi is there. He had insane volume for his time while also having percentages relative to era (and to this day above league average relative to position). I think B is fair. 

-Handling:
Idrc tbh we are before the playmaking bigs era anyways. Maybe Yao at a C-? Had solid IQ and feel for the game. Not worried much on this.

-Defense:
I think B+ for Deandre Jordan is excessive. Solid rim protector, nothing else really. His athleticism probably boosts him in this category but he should be toned down a bit. Definitely doesn't belong in the same convos as Tyson Chandler, who, now that i think about it, could be bumped up. Whiteside at B is fine as long as 95% of his grade is in the blocking category. If not then bump him down. Bad defender outside of (occasional) rim protection. 

-Rebounding:
Immediate switch of Whiteside and Dwight + Ben Wallace. In no world is Hassan Whiteside a better rebounder than peak Ben or peak Dwight. Boban at an A is also insane. Unless the game doesn't take into account frame, so this is your way of making his frame visible in game. If that's the case then it's ok i guess. Omer Asik could be bumped down to B+. Only one truy elite rebounding season at 7 feet tall. Deandre could maybe be bumped to A as well, but fringe A is fine especially considering his jumping ability will be through the roof anyways. Al Horford should not be on the same tier as Brook when it comes to rebounding. Brook is one of the worst rebounding 7 footers ever. Horford, despite being undersized, has had 1 double digit rpg season, with 4 more 9+ rpg seasons.Brook doesn't have a single 9+ season, only 2 8+ rpg seasons and only 2 more seasons get added if we move down the goalpost to 7 rpg. All of this while these 2 have a 4 inch gap (no diddy) between them. Seeing the rest of the list i think that a bump to Horford and a downgrade on Al are both necessary when a guy like Marc Gasol who is also on the same tier, is clearly a better rebounder than Brook but also cleary a worse rebounder than Horford.

May 9, 2024 12:03:52 GMT -5 bosoxlover12 said:

Tyson Chandler A- def

Not the greatest defensive playmaker for a guy that won DPOY, and that hurts his DEF grade.

May 10, 2024 15:14:00 GMT -5 redauerbachsghost said:

Feels odd for Marc Gasol to have SUCH a low HAN grade, I am aware that it's different for centers and big men generally but Gasol was certainly someone deserving of a B- or C+ imo. Would consider Joakim Noah for a bump in that department as well.

He has the third highest HAN grade among all centers, and Noah is second (Horford is #1). As you mentioned, it's just tough for big men, especially with how slow they are. All three of these guys have good Passing ratings, though.

May 10, 2024 22:28:18 GMT -5 nickmolyvia said:

-Inside Scoring:
Derrick Favors and Nene in the same tier as Yao bothers me a lot ngl. B+ for Yao i think is a very logical gripe, if not mandatory. Brook Lopez could be bumped to a B if we are talking peak since he wasn't shooting any 3s during his individual peak. He was a pure post scorer averaging 20 a game off of pure inside scoring. I think he should be at B. Would also advocate for Al Horford going to a B- since during his peak he was averaging 16 a game on just 1 3pt attempt a game. He did utilize the midrange a bit (mostly 16-3pt) but exactly 50% of his shots came within 10 feet in his 3-4 year peak with the Hawks. I think having him on the same tier as Ben Wallace is disrespectful.

-Outside Scoring:
Not a grade gripe but mostly stat gripe, idk what Horford's ratings look like but the 3 should not be high since, as aforementioned, he was barely shooting 3s at his peak. His midrange should take up most of his B grade due to his outrageously good splits (47% from 16-3pt with 30% of your shots coming from there is pure insanity). LaFrentz should also be a B, especially if Zhizhi is there. He had insane volume for his time while also having percentages relative to era (and to this day above league average relative to position). I think B is fair. 

-Handling:
Idrc tbh we are before the playmaking bigs era anyways. Maybe Yao at a C-? Had solid IQ and feel for the game. Not worried much on this.

-Defense:
I think B+ for Deandre Jordan is excessive. Solid rim protector, nothing else really. His athleticism probably boosts him in this category but he should be toned down a bit. Definitely doesn't belong in the same convos as Tyson Chandler, who, now that i think about it, could be bumped up. Whiteside at B is fine as long as 95% of his grade is in the blocking category. If not then bump him down. Bad defender outside of (occasional) rim protection. 

-Rebounding:
Immediate switch of Whiteside and Dwight + Ben Wallace. In no world is Hassan Whiteside a better rebounder than peak Ben or peak Dwight. Boban at an A is also insane. Unless the game doesn't take into account frame, so this is your way of making his frame visible in game. If that's the case then it's ok i guess. Omer Asik could be bumped down to B+. Only one truy elite rebounding season at 7 feet tall. Deandre could maybe be bumped to A as well, but fringe A is fine especially considering his jumping ability will be through the roof anyways. Al Horford should not be on the same tier as Brook when it comes to rebounding. Brook is one of the worst rebounding 7 footers ever. Horford, despite being undersized, has had 1 double digit rpg season, with 4 more 9+ rpg seasons.Brook doesn't have a single 9+ season, only 2 8+ rpg seasons and only 2 more seasons get added if we move down the goalpost to 7 rpg. All of this while these 2 have a 4 inch gap (no diddy) between them. Seeing the rest of the list i think that a bump to Horford and a downgrade on Al are both necessary when a guy like Marc Gasol who is also on the same tier, is clearly a better rebounder than Brook but also cleary a worse rebounder than Horford.

INSIDE SCORING

- Derrick Favors / Nene / Yao Ming: Yao has the second highest Inside Scoring rating of all the centers in the file. He's always underwhelming in grades with athletics figured in, and we know how much Jumping impacts this one. I'd sooner lower the other two before I raised Yao; I'm confident he's good.

OUTSIDE SCORING

- Al Horford: I'll address your point about his INS grade here, too. I think you're considering only Hawks Al Horford as his peak, but he was just as good in those early years in Boston despite being a different player. The ratings made are sort of a combination of the two, so he definitely will be able to shoot threes (high mid-range too) while his Inside Scoring rating takes a drop. It's right on the fringe, so I don't have a problem giving him a modest boost and dropping his Jump Shot rating a tad.

HANDLING

- Yao Ming: I just bumped him from D to D+ HAN grade; I think it's fine.

DEFENSE

- DeAndre Jordan: Agreed.
- Hassan Whiteside: He is very much buoyed by his high Blocking rating. He's right on the fringe even with that.

REBOUNDING

- Hassan Whiteside: I don't think you're giving him enough credit as a rebounder. His numbers are crazy. I understand his flaws as a player, but I don't think lowering his REB grade is fair. His rebounding numbers are better than the two guys you mentioned (hall of fame guys, I know).
- Boban Marjanovic: If you're asking if the REB grade is taking into account his size, no it's not. Boban is a crazy rebounder as well, in small samples of course. With a guy like him, it's sort of unfair because he doesn't do these numbers in real situations, but you also cannot discount them entirely.
- Al Horford / Brook Lopez: I'll preface this by saying they are on opposite ends of this tier. With that said, I think the disconnect here is the version of Horford being generated here. Even towards the end of the Atlanta days, Horford was down to ~7 rebounds per game. Those days, plus early Boston, is mostly the version of Horford I was using. I understand he was a far better rebounder earlier on, and I am giving him a modicum of credit for that, too. Regarding Brook, he's on the drop fringe. I do think the C+ REB is the appropriate grade, though.