2012 Rookie Draft Projected Peak Grades

Name Pos INS OUT HAN DEF REB
Adreian Payne PF C C D- C C
Andre Drummond C B D+ D+ B- A
Andrew Nicholson PF C C+ D- C C
Axel Toupane SF C C+ C- C- D+
Bernard James C C D+ D- C B-
Brandon Knight PG C+ B- C+ C+ D+
C.J. Williams SG C C C- C- D
Casper Ware PG C- C C D+ D
Chris Johnson SF C C+ D+ C C-
Chris Smith SG C- C- D D- D-
Cory Joseph PG C B- C+ B- C-
Darius Johnson-Odom SG C- C D+ D D+
Darius Miller SF C B C- C D+
Darius Morris PG C C+ C C D+
David Wear PF C C- D- D C-
DeAndre Liggins SG C C+ C- C+ C-
Dennis Schroder PG C+ B B B- C-
Dion Waiters SG C+ B- C C C-
Doug McDermott SF C B+ D+ C C-
Draymond Green PF C+ C+ B- A- C+
Enes Kanter C B C D C A-
Erick Green SG C C C- C- D
Greg Smith PF C C- D- C C+
Henry Sims C C C- D C C+
Hollis Thompson SF C B- D C D+
Isaiah Thomas PG B- B B C D+
Jae Crowder SF C+ B- C- B C
James Nunnally SF C C+ D+ C- D+
JaMychal Green SF C+ B- D C+ B-
Jeff Taylor SF C C D C- D+
Jeremy Lamb SG C+ B C C+ C
Joe Harris SF C A- C- C C-
Jordan Hamilton SG C B- C- C C
Jorge Gutierrez PG C C C C D+
Josh Magette PG C- C+ C+ C- D
Justin Hamilton C C C+ D C C
Kawhi Leonard SF B+ B+ C A C
Kemba Walker PG B- B+ B C+ C-
Kent Bazemore SG C+ B- C- B- C-
Kevin Murphy SG C- C D D+ D+
Klay Thompson SG C+ A- C- B C-
Kris Joseph SF C C D D+ D+
Kyle O'Quinn C C+ C C- B- B
Kyrie Irving PG B- A- B+ C+ C-
Malcolm Lee SG C C C- C D+
Markieff Morris SF C+ B- C- B- C
Meyers Leonard C C B D+ C C+
Mike James (Lamar) PG C C C C D+
Mike Scott SF C+ B D+ C C
Miles Plumlee C C+ C- D- C+ B-
Nate Wolters PG C C C C- D+
Nicolas Laprovittola PG C- B- C C- D
Nicolo Melli SF C B- C- C C
Nikola Mirotic SF C+ B D+ C+ C+
Nikola Vucevic C B- B C C+ B+
Ognjen Kuzmic C C C- D- C- C+
Orlando Johnson SG C C+ D+ C- C-
Quincy Acy SF C C+ D C+ C
Reggie Jackson PG C+ B- B C+ C-
Robbie Hummel SF C C+ D+ C- C
Robert Sacre C C C- D C C
Royce White PF C D+ D+ D C
Rudy Gobert C B- C- D A- A-
Scotty Hopson SG C C D+ D+ D+
Shelvin Mack PG C C+ B- C+ C-
Tony Mitchell SF C C- D+ D+ C-
Tony Snell SF C B C- C+ D+
Tony Wroten PG C+ C C C C-
Toure' Murry SG C C C C C-
Trey Thompkins C C C D- C- C
Tyler Honeycutt SF C C- D+ C- C
Tyshawn Taylor PG C C C C D
Will Barton SG C+ B- C C+ C
Willie Reed C C C- D- C B-

Here's the 2012 Rookie Draft class, in full. Just as it was in the last league, these are the projected peak ratings for these prospects, not how they will come into the league. The ratings are here to be griped; not providing input won't make the league move on any faster. To encourage gripes, any successful rating gripe will earn you league cash. You are limited to five gripes per team, unless I specify otherwise. Please note that there is no specific amount of gripes that I'm looking for to move the league along, so just throwing feces at the wall hoping it'll convince me to advance is not advised.

One other note, I'm going to start bringing in some of the modern day stretch fours into the game as SF's, but keep their position eligibility at PF. The reason for this is so they develop more naturally in relation to their skillset. This is no different than bringing in Russell Westbrook at SF but his positional eligibility being at guard.

Change Log:
Andre Drummond OUT: C- to D+ - dez +$10,000
Andre Drummond DEF: B to B- - nickmolyvia +$10,000
Brandon Knight DEF: C to C+
DeAndre Liggins DEF: C to C+
Dennis Schroder DEF: C+ to B-
Doug McDermott OUT: B to B+ - nickmolyvia +$10,000
Draymond Green HAN: C+ to B- - Licensed Bullshark +$10,000
Isaiah Thomas INS: C+ to B- - stunna +$10,000
Kyle O'Quinn DEF: C+ to B- - stunna +$10,000
Kyrie Irving DEF: B- to C+ - Licensed Bullshark +$10,000
Reggie Jackson OUT: B to B- - nickmolyvia +$10,000
Royce White HAN: D+ to C-
Rudy Gobert INS: C+ to B- - snipezo +$10,000
Will Barton OUT: B- to B

Couple gripes from a team with no hat in the race with this draft lol

Draymond Green - At his PEAK I feel is a solid "A" defensively, the best version of Dray essentially is the pillar of a defense.

Brandon Knight - another player that at his best I feel could get a bit more love, when he was given the greenlight he was getting 19.6 a game, I think that could warrant him going "B-" inside and out at his peak

Rudy Gobert - Same situation as Draymond, "A" defensively at his best

Kemba/IT - Not sure how to balance it but Kemba's peak scoring season is 25.6 while IT's is 28.9, Yet Kemba's ratings for scoring suggest that he'd produce more when in reality he just had more years of consistent scoring. So something to bring those two closer together whether boosting IT or bringing Kemba down slightly.

Kyle O'Quinn - I could see "B-" for his peak defense, solid when it came to racking blocks up for sure

BONUS: Hear me out, Royce White had a solid handle so I'd push for "C" over "D+"

Isaiah Thomas should have a B- in, in his prime he was one of the best rim finishing guards around the league with how crafty he was around the rim. On top of this I feel like Isaiah should have a B+ out and B+ handle grade as well, as his craftiness with the ball was what allowed him to be such an elite scorer. This is a guy who averaged around 30 ppg before injuries wrecked his career and I feel like the ratings should do his prime more of a justice, as it stands his ratings look like those of a reggie jackson/dennis schroeder which is not reflective of who IT was. There is enough of a sample size from 2013-2017 along with production in the playoffs to warrant this guy getting the respect he deserves. His peak was short but it was still there, just like how you would jack up a guy like Drose's grades you should do that for IT even if his peak wasnt long lived.

Gobert should definitely have an A DEF grade, this is a guy who won the DPOY award 4 times in his career, which is tied for the most ever, if you are gonna give kawhi an A you gotta give rudy an A.

Draymond deserves a B- Handle to reflect his really good passing skills. You could make an argument he was golden states best playmaker during their dynasty and I feel like in spite of his lack of handles he should be at around a B/B- im leaning toward a high B-.

As for Kyrie he has gotta have an A- handle, his playmaking and ability to create separation should easily cash him that grade. This is a guy who is arguably the best dribbler ever. I also think you should make Kyries in a B, kyries finishing around the rim is very underrated and he was truly a 3 level scorer, imo the ratings should reflect that. Id also tick his defense down to a C+, he was a solid defender at points in his career but always inconsistent.

The Kyrie handle should be at least like an A. No need to pull up any tape but he has a career 2.3 topg.

Draymond to me is the one player that truly deserves a A+ defense. A bit confused with the A- peak (is it because of spg and bgp numbers)?

Sept 22, 2024 12:49:14 GMT -5 stunna said:

Couple gripes from a team with no hat in the race with this draft lol

Draymond Green - At his PEAK I feel is a solid "A" defensively, the best version of Dray essentially is the pillar of a defense.

Brandon Knight - another player that at his best I feel could get a bit more love, when he was given the greenlight he was getting 19.6 a game, I think that could warrant him going "B-" inside and out at his peak

Rudy Gobert - Same situation as Draymond, "A" defensively at his best

Kemba/IT - Not sure how to balance it but Kemba's peak scoring season is 25.6 while IT's is 28.9, Yet Kemba's ratings for scoring suggest that he'd produce more when in reality he just had more years of consistent scoring. So something to bring those two closer together whether boosting IT or bringing Kemba down slightly.

Kyle O'Quinn - I could see "B-" for his peak defense, solid when it came to racking blocks up for sure

BONUS: Hear me out, Royce White had a solid handle so I'd push for "C" over "D+"

- Draymond Green: I fully agree that Draymond is a pillar defensively, I just think he's punished by the FBB grading algorithm for being a PF with only a decent Blocking rating. For what it's worth, if I changed his position to SF, he'd have an A DEF grade easily.

- Brandon Knight: 19.6 points per game isn't really telling the full story there. He was inefficient as hell and on a team that went 23-59. I do not agree with him going up to B- INS.

- Rudy Gobert: I don't think I need to say that I've always admired Gobert's defensive impact on the game. I think he's one of the best defensive anchors of all-time. He's right by the fringe of A- and A and I think his ratings accurately reflect each of his individual skills. Not bumping him at the moment but perhaps I'll revisit this one later.

- Kemba Walker / Isaiah Thomas: I'm fine upping Isaiah Thomas to B- INS, but I feel it's important to note that I never look at peaks as a one-year thing. Typically, I look at a three-year period.

- Kyle O'Quinn: He will definitely be able to block shots. Personally, I think B- DEF and B REB is going to be too overpowered for a guy who was a career backup, but he's right on the fringe as is.

- Royce White: I actually made sure to give his Passing rating respect. I'm fine upping it even higher to get him to C- HAN. (Since it was a bonus gripe, I can't pay you for this one)

Sept 22, 2024 21:45:38 GMT -5 licensedbullshark said:

Isaiah Thomas should have a B- in, in his prime he was one of the best rim finishing guards around the league with how crafty he was around the rim. On top of this I feel like Isaiah should have a B+ out and B+ handle grade as well, as his craftiness with the ball was what allowed him to be such an elite scorer. This is a guy who averaged around 30 ppg before injuries wrecked his career and I feel like the ratings should do his prime more of a justice, as it stands his ratings look like those of a reggie jackson/dennis schroeder which is not reflective of who IT was. There is enough of a sample size from 2013-2017 along with production in the playoffs to warrant this guy getting the respect he deserves. His peak was short but it was still there, just like how you would jack up a guy like Drose's grades you should do that for IT even if his peak wasnt long lived.

Gobert should definitely have an A DEF grade, this is a guy who won the DPOY award 4 times in his career, which is tied for the most ever, if you are gonna give kawhi an A you gotta give rudy an A.

Draymond deserves a B- Handle to reflect his really good passing skills. You could make an argument he was golden states best playmaker during their dynasty and I feel like in spite of his lack of handles he should be at around a B/B- im leaning toward a high B-.

As for Kyrie he has gotta have an A- handle, his playmaking and ability to create separation should easily cash him that grade. This is a guy who is arguably the best dribbler ever. I also think you should make Kyries in a B, kyries finishing around the rim is very underrated and he was truly a 3 level scorer, imo the ratings should reflect that. Id also tick his defense down to a C+, he was a solid defender at points in his career but always inconsistent.

- Isaiah Thomas: His ratings were already based on the 3+ year period you were referring to. From what you're asking, it sounds like you want me to base all his ratings entirely off the 2016-17 season, which I'm absolutely not willing to do. There is a difference between Rose who played at an MVP-level for two years and then tore his ACL, and Isaiah Thomas who only had one year as a true All-NBA level guy. I already upped his INS grade to B- but I do not think any of the other increases you mentioned are warranted.

- Rudy Gobert: Already addressed.

- Draymond Green: Fine with this. He already had the highest Passing rating of any PF, he's just fat and slow.

- Kyrie Irving: This is going to be my yearly reminder than Passing rating influences the HAN grade more than ball handling, and I do not think Kyrie is on the level as a passer to earn A- HAN. I'm actually a little surprised he got as high as a B+, but I imagine that is thanks in part to such a strong Handling rating. I don't think his INS grade should go up to B, but I'm fine lowering his DEF to C+.

Sept 23, 2024 19:12:00 GMT -5 snipe said:

The Kyrie handle should be at least like an A. No need to pull up any tape but he has a career 2.3 topg.

Draymond to me is the one player that truly deserves a A+ defense. A bit confused with the A- peak (is it because of spg and bgp numbers)?

- Kyrie Irving: Already addressed this above.

- Draymond Green: Also already addressed this above. If I change his position to SF, he'd be an A. It's very hard to get an A+ DEF grade, but to your point, yes, the Stealing and Blocking ratings are what probably holds him back the post.

I would seriously consider bumping up Klay Thompsons DEF a grade. He was one of the premier 3&D guys in the league for a decade. Possibly even his 3 point shot as well, most would consider him to be the 2nd best shooter in league history. If he doesn’t have one of the highest if not highest grades 3 point shots possible I don’t know when a player would attain that.

Sept 22, 2024 12:49:14 GMT -5 stunna said:

Kyle O'Quinn - I could see "B-" for his peak defense, solid when it came to racking blocks up for sure

Upon re-evaluation, I'll up him to a B- grade.

I feel like Drummond would be OP with those ratings. Id like to see his inside scoring nerfed to a B-. His numbers at the rim are much worse compared to say Rudy.

ADrummond B- Inside D+ Outside
KO’Quinn C Handle
Reggie Jackson B- Handle
WBarton B- Defense

Sept 25, 2024 15:11:14 GMT -5 snipe said:

I feel like Drummond would be OP with those ratings. Id like to see his inside scoring nerfed to a B-. His numbers at the rim are much worse compared to say Rudy.

Comparing him to Gobert, yes Gobert has a much better percentage at the rim but far more of his field goals there are assisted and far more of them are specifically assisted dunks. With that said, I actually feel better about raising Gobert to B- INS than I do lowering Drummond, because Drummond is a decent inside scoring big with a good Jumping rating for the position.

Sept 24, 2024 20:13:57 GMT -5 thegreatkylini said:

I would seriously consider bumping up Klay Thompsons DEF a grade. He was one of the premier 3&D guys in the league for a decade. Possibly even his 3 point shot as well, most would consider him to be the 2nd best shooter in league history. If he doesn’t have one of the highest if not highest grades 3 point shots possible I don’t know when a player would attain that.

Addressing his shooting first, even Curry had an A- OUT grade. That's just what we're working with here.

Regarding his defense, he's very fundamentally sound but he wasn't a great defensive playmaker which is a big part of the grade, as I've talked about time and again. He will be a very good defender here.

Sept 26, 2024 10:35:02 GMT -5 CC06 said:

Sept 25, 2024 15:11:14 GMT -5 snipe said:

I feel like Drummond would be OP with those ratings. Id like to see his inside scoring nerfed to a B-. His numbers at the rim are much worse compared to say Rudy.

Comparing him to Gobert, yes Gobert has a much better percentage at the rim but far more of his field goals there are assisted and far more of them are specifically assisted dunks. With that said, I actually feel better about raising Gobert to B- INS than I do lowering Drummond, because Drummond is a decent inside scoring big with a good Jumping rating for the position.

Works for me as well

Sept 25, 2024 20:23:23 GMT -5 dez said:

ADrummond B- Inside D+ Outside
KO’Quinn C Handle
Reggie Jackson B- Handle
WBarton B- Defense

- Andre Drummond: Already addressed his INS grade, but I am fine with lowering his OUT grade.
- Kyle O'Quinn: Fine with giving him a slight Passing bump, but I do not think an entire grade level is warranted.
- Reggie Jackson: I feel the B HAN grade is warranted.
- Will Barton: I'll give him a boost but I think C+ DEF is fair.

FYI: Have not read previous gripes. If already addressed ignore

Andre Drummond (DEF: from B to C+): B DEF is insane for Drummond imo. He was a slightly above average defender AT BEST during his peak. There is no way he is in the same tier as Jae Crowder, Klay and Dennis Schroder defensively.

Andrew Nicholson (DEF: from C to C+): I really don't see how Drummond is considered a better defender than Nicholson. He wasn't some defensive specimen but above average I would say.

Brandon Knight (HAN: from C+ to B-): I don't remember if speed is included in the HAN category (pretty sure it is) but if it is then C+ HAN for Knight is too low. I would advocate for a B but I am fine with a B-. After all we are talking about a guy who averaged basically 20 ppg during his peak mostly through creating his own shot.

Cory Joseph (OUT: from B- to C+): Fail to see how Cory is on the same tier of shooter as Knight who averaged 3 more 3pt attempts for his career than Cory and shot the same percentage as him (0.3% better actually but it's minimal so I let it slide).

Dennis Schroder (DEF: from B- to B): We have had this convo before so I won't bother so much with it since I know your stance on it but I just had to mention it again. If his OUT rating isn't fringe B then maybe you could lower that to make it fringe because he does have a broderline elite midrange game but his 3pt% is below average.

Doug McDermott (OUT: from B to B+): Pretty self-explanatory I want to believe since he is a career 41% shooter behind the arc.

Draymond Green (REB: from C+ to B-): I would say he is a pretty good rebounder both relative to position and size. 7 rpg for his career I think he belongs in the same tier rebounding wise as JaMychal.

Klay Thompson (DEF: from B to B+): At his peak I think I am confident to say that he was a top 3 guard defender so I think a B+ is appropriate, a level below Kawhi and a level above Schroder and Crowder.

Kyrie Irving (HAN: from B+ to A-): I know it also includes passing, and that's the reason that I am not advocating for a pure A, but the best ball handler of all time has to be an A- no?

Reggie Jackson (OUT: from B to B-): B seems excessive for a career 34.5% 3pt shooter imo. I think B- is more suitable.

Sept 26, 2024 12:40:26 GMT -5 nickmolyvia said:

FYI: Have not read previous gripes. If already addressed ignore

Andre Drummond (DEF: from B to C+): B DEF is insane for Drummond imo. He was a slightly above average defender AT BEST during his peak. There is no way he is in the same tier as Jae Crowder, Klay and Dennis Schroder defensively.

Andrew Nicholson (DEF: from C to C+): I really don't see how Drummond is considered a better defender than Nicholson. He wasn't some defensive specimen but above average I would say.

Brandon Knight (HAN: from C+ to B-): I don't remember if speed is included in the HAN category (pretty sure it is) but if it is then C+ HAN for Knight is too low. I would advocate for a B but I am fine with a B-. After all we are talking about a guy who averaged basically 20 ppg during his peak mostly through creating his own shot.

Cory Joseph (OUT: from B- to C+): Fail to see how Cory is on the same tier of shooter as Knight who averaged 3 more 3pt attempts for his career than Cory and shot the same percentage as him (0.3% better actually but it's minimal so I let it slide).

Dennis Schroder (DEF: from B- to B): We have had this convo before so I won't bother so much with it since I know your stance on it but I just had to mention it again. If his OUT rating isn't fringe B then maybe you could lower that to make it fringe because he does have a broderline elite midrange game but his 3pt% is below average.

Doug McDermott (OUT: from B to B+): Pretty self-explanatory I want to believe since he is a career 41% shooter behind the arc.

Draymond Green (REB: from C+ to B-): I would say he is a pretty good rebounder both relative to position and size. 7 rpg for his career I think he belongs in the same tier rebounding wise as JaMychal.

Klay Thompson (DEF: from B to B+): At his peak I think I am confident to say that he was a top 3 guard defender so I think a B+ is appropriate, a level below Kawhi and a level above Schroder and Crowder.

Kyrie Irving (HAN: from B+ to A-): I know it also includes passing, and that's the reason that I am not advocating for a pure A, but the best ball handler of all time has to be an A- no?

Reggie Jackson (OUT: from B to B-): B seems excessive for a career 34.5% 3pt shooter imo. I think B- is more suitable.

- Andre Drummond: I absolutely agree he's not in the same tier of defender as those guys you mentioned, but he is a high Steals guy for a C and a good enough shot blocker that his rating is automatically going to be inflated. I can get him to a B- grade but no further.
- Andrew Nicholson: There's nothing I can find that really agrees with this, and his Stealing/Blocking ratings are also low.
- Brandon Knight: Have already gone over how Knight averaging 20 PPG on a terrible Suns team doesn't move me. I can give him a slight Quickness boost but I do not agree with this gripe.
- Cory Joseph: Knight actually has a higher 3P rating than Joseph here, but Joseph edges him out in the mid-range game.
- Dennis Schroder: The argument you've made before was for him to go from C+ to B-, there's absolutely no way I agree with a B DEF grade.
- Doug McDermott: Fine with this.
- Draymond Green: I agree with you on Draymond's rebounding on the defensive side, the problem is he was never a high-level offensive rebounder and that's weighted the same in the grade.
- Klay Thompson: Already addressed.
- Kyrie Irving: Already addressed.
- Reggie Jackson: Fine with this.